Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scot...
Some delightful comments from an SNP councillor who said in Gaelic-
“The island of Britain is no longer subject to the actions of quislings who may seek to see smaller cultures extinguished on an island of coffins by red coats.”
What a lovely bunch of people they are.
Some delightful comments from an SNP councillor who said in Gaelic-
“The island of Britain is no longer subject to the actions of quislings who may seek to see smaller cultures extinguished on an island of coffins by red coats.”
What a lovely bunch of people they are.
Curriculum for Excellence ‘disastrous’ for children’s attainment
Still waiting for Edinburger to address this topic and answer the direct questions I put to him about it.
After spouting a lot of hot air Sturgeon and the SNP have suddenly gone very quiet on education, because the penny has dropped that they presided over a run-away car crash over this most important of public services while they were too busy pursuing independence.
CfE has devastated Scottish education because a premise of it was to dismantle the rigorous assessment system with its quality control processes and replace it with a 'holistic' airy-fairy approach to teaching and assessment that left schools going off in all different directions in an attempt to work out what they should be teaching to meet the 'experiences and outcomes' that pupils were now supposedly being assessed on.
Even if they now abandon the teaching methods advocated by Outcome Based Education (which is what CfE actually was, but was cynically rebranded to try and misdirect anyone researching it and discovering the reports from Australia, South Africa and several states of the US where it had been tried and thoroughly discredited) they don't have the money or the expertise to rebuild the Scottish Qualifications Authority and Education Scotland as all the experienced and respected educators of the past walked away vowing never to return when they could see what a shambles was being forced upon them.
The Scottish Government and its education bodies need to eat ladlefuls of humble pie and admit they were wrong with CfE to win back the confidence of educators and the public. Instead we get idiots like James Dornan ploughing ahead with the soundbites that are demonstrably false and fly in the face of the evidence from international testing bodies such as the OECD.
Still waiting for Edinburger to address this topic and answer the direct questions I put to him about it.
After spouting a lot of hot air Sturgeon and the SNP have suddenly gone very quiet on education, because the penny has dropped that they presided over a run-away car crash over this most important of public services while they were too busy pursuing independence.
CfE has devastated Scottish education because a premise of it was to dismantle the rigorous assessment system with its quality control processes and replace it with a 'holistic' airy-fairy approach to teaching and assessment that left schools going off in all different directions in an attempt to work out what they should be teaching to meet the 'experiences and outcomes' that pupils were now supposedly being assessed on.
Even if they now abandon the teaching methods advocated by Outcome Based Education (which is what CfE actually was, but was cynically rebranded to try and misdirect anyone researching it and discovering the reports from Australia, South Africa and several states of the US where it had been tried and thoroughly discredited) they don't have the money or the expertise to rebuild the Scottish Qualifications Authority and Education Scotland as all the experienced and respected educators of the past walked away vowing never to return when they could see what a shambles was being forced upon them.
The Scottish Government and its education bodies need to eat ladlefuls of humble pie and admit they were wrong with CfE to win back the confidence of educators and the public. Instead we get idiots like James Dornan ploughing ahead with the soundbites that are demonstrably false and fly in the face of the evidence from international testing bodies such as the OECD.
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 7th March 12:05
Murph7355 said:
Sadly rather too many of your compatriots keep voting them in (or not enough vote elsewhere). While ever they have a majority, you can guarantee too much time, money and effort will be spent on the topic.
They have a majority of f
k all, minority government with minority of the votes. And they signed a bill to respect the referendum result. I might complain to someone.simoid said:
They have a majority of fk all, minority government with minority of the votes. And they signed a bill to respect the referendum result. I might complain to someone.
I was under the impression they still had a majority (of 1). But double checking it looks like they're down by 1 or 2.k all, minority government with minority of the votes. And they signed a bill to respect the referendum result. I might complain to someone.However they do still have 47% or so of the vote. Until you can convince more people to vote for others in such a way that the SNP get a drubbing like you gave Labour, I wouldn't hold your breath. It will need that scale of shift to quieten them down.
It's all falling apart for Nicola.
article said:
A former deputy leader of the SNP has said he would refuse to vote for Scottish independence in a second referendum if it meant rejoining the European Union.
Jim Sillars, who played a prominent role in the 2014 Yes campaign, said he would abstain and warned Nicola Sturgeon that many Leave voters who backed independence in the last referendum would do the same.
He said he did not want to be governed by an “unelected elite” and accused the First Minister of behaving “hysterically” over her threat of another independence referendum if Scotland is pulled out of the EU single market alongside the rest of the UK.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/former-snp-deputy-leader-jim-sillars-wont-back-independence/amp/Jim Sillars, who played a prominent role in the 2014 Yes campaign, said he would abstain and warned Nicola Sturgeon that many Leave voters who backed independence in the last referendum would do the same.
He said he did not want to be governed by an “unelected elite” and accused the First Minister of behaving “hysterically” over her threat of another independence referendum if Scotland is pulled out of the EU single market alongside the rest of the UK.
Murph7355 said:
simoid said:
They have a majority of fk all, minority government with minority of the votes. And they signed a bill to respect the referendum result. I might complain to someone.
I was under the impression they still had a majority (of 1). But double checking it looks like they're down by 1 or 2.k all, minority government with minority of the votes. And they signed a bill to respect the referendum result. I might complain to someone.However they do still have 47% or so of the vote. Until you can convince more people to vote for others in such a way that the SNP get a drubbing like you gave Labour, I wouldn't hold your breath. It will need that scale of shift to quieten them down.
Garvin said:
I think the game is finally up. Unless the Scottish electorate are hell bent on turning Scotland into a Greece look-a-like then the more sensible, level headed voters will, I believe, begin to realise that their attempt to 'stick one on' Westminster has had no more effect than to be a masochistic ritual of self harm. Coupled with the true independence seekers who see the incessant drive to remain governed by Brussels as nothing more than betrayal the SNP support will now, IMHO, inexorable ebb away from the SNP - maybe slowly over time but ebb away it surely will.
It needs to do so before 2020.Problem is, who do they vote for? Labour were strongest before but they are broken.
Can't see Scotland voting Tories in.
LibDems? Not a prayer from anyone but the most hysterical Remainers... Who would surely stick with SNP.
So who?
Murph7355 said:
It needs to do so before 2020.
Problem is, who do they vote for? Labour were strongest before but they are broken.
Can't see Scotland voting Tories in.
LibDems? Not a prayer from anyone but the most hysterical Remainers... Who would surely stick with SNP.
So who?
Why not? torys got what 21-22% of the vote in 2015 GE increased from last election. Problem is, who do they vote for? Labour were strongest before but they are broken.
Can't see Scotland voting Tories in.
LibDems? Not a prayer from anyone but the most hysterical Remainers... Who would surely stick with SNP.
So who?
gofasterrosssco said:
Oil - Not just a bonus then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
I kinda feel sorry for the guy - he's been tasked with coming up with an economic case for something that doesn't really have an economic case.
The bonus thing (when the money was used in the figures) never made sense.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
I kinda feel sorry for the guy - he's been tasked with coming up with an economic case for something that doesn't really have an economic case.
However there is a likely case for oil in the future - it's just it will take time and not last forever. Don't make the mistake of assuming there will never be another upturn for oil in Scotland, like the SNP assuming it would continue forever.
BlackLabel said:
It's all falling apart for Nicola.
I may not agree with it, but that view I can very much respect. Wanting to be free to do your own thing. The main issue I have with the SNP as a party is the "it's for Scotland" when very clearly a huge amount is just against the English, as shown by wanting to be in one Union (which is less relevant) and not in the other.article said:
A former deputy leader of the SNP has said he would refuse to vote for Scottish independence in a second referendum if it meant rejoining the European Union.
Jim Sillars, who played a prominent role in the 2014 Yes campaign, said he would abstain and warned Nicola Sturgeon that many Leave voters who backed independence in the last referendum would do the same.
He said he did not want to be governed by an “unelected elite” and accused the First Minister of behaving “hysterically” over her threat of another independence referendum if Scotland is pulled out of the EU single market alongside the rest of the UK.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/former-snp-deputy-leader-jim-sillars-wont-back-independence/amp/Jim Sillars, who played a prominent role in the 2014 Yes campaign, said he would abstain and warned Nicola Sturgeon that many Leave voters who backed independence in the last referendum would do the same.
He said he did not want to be governed by an “unelected elite” and accused the First Minister of behaving “hysterically” over her threat of another independence referendum if Scotland is pulled out of the EU single market alongside the rest of the UK.
NRS said:
I may not agree with it, but that view I can very much respect. Wanting to be free to do your own thing. The main issue I have with the SNP as a party is the "it's for Scotland" when very clearly a huge amount is just against the English, as shown by wanting to be in one Union (which is less relevant) and not in the other.
Essentially Brexit are and have been using the exact same arguement as the SNP. You will clearly retain single market access = our closest friends and allies will continue to trade with each other it would be daft to have transaction costs.
We will walk away from the divorce settlement with the EU it's not legally binding nor does the actual debt exist = no debt without a share of the assets
Etc etc.
SNP really dislike it as they apparently oppose BREXIT and are using Pro Union arguement which is hypocrital to the extreme. And yet so many SNP supporters are either so thick or have been hoodwinked they cannot see this basic logic.
Welshbeef said:
Essentially Brexit are and have been using the exact same arguement as the SNP.
You will clearly retain single market access = our closest friends and allies will continue to trade with each other it would be daft to have transaction costs.
We will walk away from the divorce settlement with the EU it's not legally binding nor does the actual debt exist = no debt without a share of the assets
Etc etc.
SNP really dislike it as they apparently oppose BREXIT and are using Pro Union arguement which is hypocrital to the extreme. And yet so many SNP supporters are either so thick or have been hoodwinked they cannot see this basic logic.
Disagree Welshie.You will clearly retain single market access = our closest friends and allies will continue to trade with each other it would be daft to have transaction costs.
We will walk away from the divorce settlement with the EU it's not legally binding nor does the actual debt exist = no debt without a share of the assets
Etc etc.
SNP really dislike it as they apparently oppose BREXIT and are using Pro Union arguement which is hypocrital to the extreme. And yet so many SNP supporters are either so thick or have been hoodwinked they cannot see this basic logic.
The Leave campaign was very explicit that once we leave the EU - we leave the single market.
Every leave campaigner on the telly was crystal clear on this.
The Govt spent £9 Million to even send you a brochure.
Murph7355 said:
I was under the impression they still had a majority (of 1). But double checking it looks like they're down by 1 or 2.
However they do still have 47% or so of the vote. Until you can convince more people to vote for others in such a way that the SNP get a drubbing like you gave Labour, I wouldn't hold your breath. It will need that scale of shift to quieten them down.
Nah they do have almost all the Scottish MPs. The whole thing just disappoints me really. A national administration full of immature bairns who can't take a telling. However they do still have 47% or so of the vote. Until you can convince more people to vote for others in such a way that the SNP get a drubbing like you gave Labour, I wouldn't hold your breath. It will need that scale of shift to quieten them down.
"Can we..."
"No."
"We're going to..."
"No."
"But if we..."
"No."
"I'm gonnae do it anyway."
simoid said:
Nah they do have almost all the Scottish MPs. The whole thing just disappoints me really. A national administration full of immature bairns who can't take a telling.
"Can we..."
"No."
"We're going to..."
"No."
"But if we..."
"No."
"I'm gonnae do it anyway."
Disappointing from this side of the border too, trust me. "Can we..."
"No."
"We're going to..."
"No."
"But if we..."
"No."
"I'm gonnae do it anyway."
I totally get that the majority of Scots aren't the SNP...but it's hard sometimes with the mouthing off they do and not difficult to see why a lot of English wish they had a vote in Scottish independence too.
People up there need to give the SNP a good kick in the balls.
technodup said:
Murph7355 said:
People up there need to give the SNP a good kick in the balls.
Unfortunately until Labour sort themselves out it's not going to happen.And that doesn't look like happening anytime soon.
Blue Tory.
Welshbeef said:
It wouldn't take much to get Torys to 30-35% of the vote from where they are.
Blue Tory.
You can't just look at a number and say "30's not far from 20 so it'll be easy"! Blue Tory.
Labour were a shambles last time out and the Tories bumped their historic haul by just 6% (constituency) and marginally more on a regional basis.
Unless there's a fundamental shift (e.g. All the Scottish Leavers and those disaffected with the SNP get off their arses and vote) I don't see it reaching much more.
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