Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[NoddyonNitrous]

If a referendum is held before the Brexit deals are finalised,no matter what the result, the losing side can can claim a 'material change' when the deals are revealed. If brexit was material change enough to justify an Indyref2, then it will also be enough to make a case for Neverendyref3. It makes having a referendum before the end of Brexit pointless.

[E24man]

I always struggle to see the argument that Scotland could be a seperate member of the EU outside of the UK?

Whether they had voted for Independence before Brexit, or whether they vote for Independence after Brexit, as long as there is a Spain to veto any application there will never be a Scotland inside the EU.

[Welshbeef]

E24man said:

I always struggle to see the argument that Scotland could be a seperate member of the EU outside of the UK?

Whether they had voted for Independence before Brexit, or whether they vote for Independence after Brexit, as long as there is a Spain to veto any application there will never be a Scotland inside the EU.

Yea but no but yea but no but

[davepoth]

E24man said:

I always struggle to see the argument that Scotland could be a seperate member of the EU outside of the UK?

Whether they had voted for Independence before Brexit, or whether they vote for Independence after Brexit, as long as there is a Spain to veto any application there will never be a Scotland inside the EU.

Mel Gibson in blue paint makes your argument invalid. Apparently.

[Yipper]

It really is time to stop the independence nonsense.

There have been something like 500 major surveys and 2 official referendums in the past 50 years and people have voted "no" in ~90% of all of them.

The longterm trend is crystal clear. Scotland wants to stay in the Union. The *quiet majority* want to stay UK.

[NoNeed]

davepoth said:

E24man said:

I always struggle to see the argument that Scotland could be a seperate member of the EU outside of the UK?

Whether they had voted for Independence before Brexit, or whether they vote for Independence after Brexit, as long as there is a Spain to veto any application there will never be a Scotland inside the EU.

Mel Gibson in blue paint makes your argument invalid. Apparently.

Thats why they want control of fishin policy, it can be used as a bargaining chip. I doubt that will work but it must be their plan.

[AstonZagato]

DrDeAtH said:

Let the English vote on Scottish independence. I'm sure the sturgeon would get her wish then....

They want to flounce out of the Union. They don't want to be kicked out and told not to let the door hit them on the arse on the way out.

Anyway, I'm not so sure the English actually would. The English like the Scots. They like Scotland. They like the Union. However, for most English, they generously regard Scottish independence as a matter for the Scots, even though it would affect rUK. There are some who would actively vote to eject the Scots, but they are in the minority.

[NoNeed]

AstonZagato said:

DrDeAtH said:

Let the English vote on Scottish independence. I'm sure the sturgeon would get her wish then....

They want to flounce out of the Union. They don't want to be kicked out and told not to let the door hit them on the arse on the way out.

Anyway, I'm not so sure the English actually would. The English like the Scots. They like Scotland. They like the Union. However, for most English, they generously regard Scottish independence as a matter for the Scots, even though it would affect rUK. There are some who would actively vote to eject the Scots, but they are in the minority.

You can see from that post that the SNP grievance machine is having an effect, but I think most of us English can see through it and value tge union.

[Yipper]

NoNeed said:

AstonZagato said:

DrDeAtH said:

Let the English vote on Scottish independence. I'm sure the sturgeon would get her wish then....

They want to flounce out of the Union. They don't want to be kicked out and told not to let the door hit them on the arse on the way out.

Anyway, I'm not so sure the English actually would. The English like the Scots. They like Scotland. They like the Union. However, for most English, they generously regard Scottish independence as a matter for the Scots, even though it would affect rUK. There are some who would actively vote to eject the Scots, but they are in the minority.

You can see from that post that the SNP grievance machine is having an effect, but I think most of us English can see through it and value tge union.

That is what May should do to stop the Krankie egomaniac. Every time Sturgeon calls for a new referendum, May should say "only if the English get a vote on it, too". That will stop the campaign in its tracks.

[AstonZagato]

I think she should agree only if there is an agreed, costed plan for how independence would work and the shape of the first budget. So, agreed currency, debt, membership timetable for the EU, cost of setting up the required institutions (properly done, so not the £50mio ludicrous number on the last white paper).

No more "we will use the Pound and own the Bank of England" nonsense. A proper plan not moon on a stick promises. Then vote on it.

[wc98]

Yipper said:

That is what May should do to stop the Krankie egomaniac. Every time Sturgeon calls for a new referendum, May should say "only if the English get a vote on it, too". That will stop the campaign in its tracks.

we can live in hope. trust me when i say the people that voted to maintain the union up here as just as sick of the constant snp whingeing as people down south are.
if the labour party were not in such a dire state this would show up at the next election. even then i strongly suspect the conservative vote will grow yet again as people have no other serious option due to the dire state of uk politics at the moment.

[ianrb]

I see the poor little lamb is finding work a bit too much!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/m...

[technodup]

AstonZagato said:

I think she should agree only if there is an agreed, costed plan for how independence would work and the shape of the first budget. So, agreed currency, debt, membership timetable for the EU, cost of setting up the required institutions (properly done, so not the £50mio ludicrous number on the last white paper).

No more "we will use the Pound and own the Bank of England" nonsense. A proper plan not moon on a stick promises. Then vote on it.

fk that. That's starting to sound like a sensible proposal, showing the working too. The plebs would be all over that.

Better they stay in fantasyland imo. We saw through it last time, we'll see through it again.

[FN2TypeR]

ianrb said:

I see the poor little lamb is finding work a bit too much!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/m...

The comments are outrageous

[rovermorris999]

AstonZagato said:

They want to flounce out of the Union. They don't want to be kicked out and told not to let the door hit them on the arse on the way out.

Anyway, I'm not so sure the English actually would. The English like the Scots. They like Scotland. They like the Union. However, for most English, they generously regard Scottish independence as a matter for the Scots, even though it would affect rUK. There are some who would actively vote to eject the Scots, but they are in the minority.

I'm not so sure. I think a lot would wave goodbye.

[jsc15]

ianrb said:

I see the poor little lamb is finding work a bit too much!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/m...

There's a decent possibility she is keeping her options open at not running again, 3 years out, as only has a 5600 majority, and it's increasingly clear that the SNP have peaked some time ago.

[FN2TypeR]

jsc15 said:

ianrb said:

I see the poor little lamb is finding work a bit too much!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/m...

There's a decent possibility she is keeping her options open at not running again, 3 years out, as only has a 5600 majority, and it's increasingly clear that the SNP have peaked some time ago.

No it isn't

[jsc15]

FN2TypeR said:

jsc15 said:

ianrb said:

I see the poor little lamb is finding work a bit too much!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/m...

There's a decent possibility she is keeping her options open at not running again, 3 years out, as only has a 5600 majority, and it's increasingly clear that the SNP have peaked some time ago.

No it isn't

she only has to have slightly over 2800 Paisley voters realise they were sold a pup, and return to the warm bosom of Labour after straying for 5 years

[hidetheelephants]

jsc15 said:

ianrb said:

I see the poor little lamb is finding work a bit too much!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/m...

There's a decent possibility she is keeping her options open at not running again, 3 years out, as only has a 5600 majority, and it's increasingly clear that the SNP have peaked some time ago.

Being a shower of ste as a constituency MP might have something to do with it; crap as Douglas Alexander was he appears to have been a conscientious constituency MP who worked hard for the people who elected him.

[FN2TypeR]

jsc15 said:

FN2TypeR said:

jsc15 said:

ianrb said:

I see the poor little lamb is finding work a bit too much!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/m...

There's a decent possibility she is keeping her options open at not running again, 3 years out, as only has a 5600 majority, and it's increasingly clear that the SNP have peaked some time ago.

No it isn't

she only has to have slightly over 2800 Paisley voters realise they were sold a pup, and return to the warm bosom of Labour after straying for 5 years

People are stupid