The 'No to the EU' campaign

[s2art]

longblackcoat said:

Funny that many people on PH absolutely hated Benn, but they seem willing to support him because he supported one of their own pet subjects.

So can Benn's views be listened to - because, after all, he's a lefty (jeer, spit etc) - or can you bear to tolerate him because he says the same thing as you. Thing is, if you say he's wrong on absolutely everything else, why do you suddenly say that he's right on this one, just wrong on absolutely everything else?

Never hated Benn, just a lot of his politics and his incompetence in dealing with business. In fact Benn was right on many things, there was a Question Time long ago with Benn and Enoch Powell, Powell and Benn agreed on everything that came up in the questions asked.

[turbobloke]

s2art said:

Never hated Benn, just a lot of his politics and his incompetence in dealing with business.

Likewise, and if he managed to say something I agree with then surprise surprise I agree with him on that score, without implying agreement on anything else - as per his comment applicable to unelected (by us) eurodrones we can't kick out while we remain in the undemocratic incompetent EU.

[Scuffers]

this is an interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leKEUT1TiLU

it's the Foreign affairs committee being schooled in basic economics and trade.

It's quite a frustrating vid, clearly they simply do not understand what the EU zone actually means and how foreign trade is done.

[steveT350C]

Scuffers said:

this is an interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leKEUT1TiLU

it's the Foreign affairs committee being schooled in basic economics and trade.

It's quite a frustrating vid, clearly they simply do not understand what the EU zone actually means and how foreign trade is done.

Skip to 8mins, you still catch the frustration but the message the Prof is trying to make subsequently becomes clearer.

Thanks for posting!

Edited by steveT350C on Wednesday 11th November 21:25

[Mark Benson]

Scuffers said:

this is an interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leKEUT1TiLU

it's the Foreign affairs committee being schooled in basic economics and trade.

It's quite a frustrating vid, clearly they simply do not understand what the EU zone actually means and how foreign trade is done.

The really frustrating thing is how they're clearly all happy in their ignorance, laughing and smiling at one another as if the prof. is in the wrong.

[Esseesse]

Scuffers said:

this is an interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leKEUT1TiLU

it's the Foreign affairs committee being schooled in basic economics and trade.

It's quite a frustrating vid, clearly they simply do not understand what the EU zone actually means and how foreign trade is done.

Interesting. Normally it's made out to be (and I assumed) that the default position is 'no trade' and that trade agreements mean trade (free or not) can occur. In fact it seems that the normal default position is one of free trade and that trade agreements are in fact made to make it less free.

[Einion Yrth]

Esseesse said:

Interesting. Normally it's made out to be (and I assumed) that the default position is 'no trade' and that trade agreements mean trade (free or not) can occur. In fact it seems that the normal default position is one of free trade and that trade agreements are in fact made to make it less free.

People trade with people. All governments can do is interfere in the market.

[Scuffers]

Einion Yrth said:

People trade with people. All governments can do is interfere in the market.

that, essentially, is the truth of the matter.

governments only get involved when they slap tariffs on imports etc. as a protectionist measure.

in an ideal world, you would not need any trade agreements as nobody would be applying any tariffs.

[Esseesse]

Einion Yrth said:

Esseesse said:

Interesting. Normally it's made out to be (and I assumed) that the default position is 'no trade' and that trade agreements mean trade (free or not) can occur. In fact it seems that the normal default position is one of free trade and that trade agreements are in fact made to make it less free.

People trade with people. All governments can do is interfere in the market.

I would be interested in this professors opinion on balanced trade vs running trade deficits. In the clip he seemed to think that totally free trade would benefit the UK the most. Until we joined the EEC we balanced our trade using tariffs. While I can see that having business as tariff-free as possible is desirable, is it not also desirable to balance trade (at least for certain things) if you want to maintain an economy/country that is able to stand on it's own feet (i.e. your steel industry or other things of strategic importance)?

[Scuffers]

he would be interesting to have a proper discussion with without the politico's

what stood out for me was his assertion that if we were independent, and based on being hit with the current EU import tariffs (from the rest of the world) wee would be 8% better off..

Like to understand this a lot better...

[Esseesse]

Patrick Minford's website and bit about the EU... http://www.patrickminford.net/europe/book_index.ht...

[Esseesse]

First polling conducted since specific demands for EU reform established. Leave marginally ahead of Remain: 53% Leave to 47% Remain.

http://survation.com/latest-eu-referendum-polling/

[turbobloke]

Esseesse said:

First polling conducted since specific demands for EU reform established. Leave marginally ahead of Remain: 53% Leave to 47% Remain.

http://survation.com/latest-eu-referendum-polling/

So far so good, here's hoping for a wider margin by referendum day.

Also marginally encouraging:
CON 36 +1 LAB 30 -2 LD 7 -1 UKIP 15 +2 SNP 5 (NC) GRE 3 (NC) AP 1 (-1)

[Esseesse]

turbobloke said:

Also marginally encouraging:
CON 36 +1 LAB 30 -2 LD 7 -1 UKIP 15 +2 SNP 5 (NC) GRE 3 (NC) AP 1 (-1)

Indeed. And there's a by-election on the way. Not expecting much but there is an outside chance of a major upset.

[turbobloke]

Esseesse said:

turbobloke said:

Also marginally encouraging:
CON 36 +1 LAB 30 -2 LD 7 -1 UKIP 15 +2 SNP 5 (NC) GRE 3 (NC) AP 1 (-1)

Indeed. And there's a by-election on the way. Not expecting much but there is an outside chance of a major upset.

Not to mention some of the usual Labour fun and games whatever happens.

Article on the December by-election said:

Labour is being warned that an upcoming by-election could become another Falkirk vote-rigging scandal after it emerged that unions are already trying to parachute a hard-left ally of Jeremy Corbyn into the safe seat.

There was initially speculation that Jon Lansman, a key member of Mr Corbyn's campaign team who previously worked for Tony Benn, was being lined up for the seat. However, he on Friday “100 per cent” ruled himself out of taking part in the contest.

It came as Yanis Varoufakis, the former hard-left Greek finance minister, claimed that he was advising Mr Corbyn’s team over economic policy.

Brilliant choice of adviser there.

[FiF]

At least the recent trend is in the right direction.

I'd like to have seen some further breakdown with a question about how definite were people's voting intention. Looking at the detailed tables those questions weren't asked. It would be nice to see the leave /remain sections being split further into definite / inclination but could be persuaded. Likewise with the undecided sector, is the 19% genuinely completely don't know with no inclination one way or the other or are there underlying trends.

The other question that's missing, and tbh am pleased that it is, concerns voting intention following a government recommendation.

Interesting that a vast majority think Dave won't achieve anything in his renegotiation. Indeed it's not a negotiation really, as there are immediate concessions as soon as anyone on the EU side kicks up on any particular subject.

[FiF]

Reasonable summary from Telegraph below. Essentially Cameron's weak non negotiation is making the choice clearer. Either leave or accept the status quo with the most minor and inconsequential of reforms.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/...

[Esseesse]

CAPX: Why has the Conservative Party U-turned on promises to repatriate powers from the EU?

[Scuffers]

Anybody watching the Farage speech live?

[Esseesse]

Scuffers said:

Anybody watching the Farage speech live?

Just watched a recording. Mr Farage in good form.

http://youtu.be/QH9fvLiGTXI