The 'No to the EU' campaign
Discussion
Front pages today speak of heading for the Brexit.
http://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/...
http://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/daily-express/front-...
http://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/...
http://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/daily-express/front-...
turbobloke said:
I take Express headlines with a pinch of salt, since the owner is a declared UKIP supporter.
EU ministers are on Bloomberg as reportedly urging CMD to back down on his demands or face defeat in negotiations. That must be what passes for choice in the 'democratic' world of EU fantasy fiction.
Meanwhile another eurodrone has been quoted as saying that the referendum will likely turn out well (for the EU) but there could be an 'accident' (arrogant muppet) while laddies have cut the odds on a Brexit as UK mood swings further against the pointless EU.
Meanwhile another eurodrone has been quoted as saying that the referendum will likely turn out well (for the EU) but there could be an 'accident' (arrogant muppet) while laddies have cut the odds on a Brexit as UK mood swings further against the pointless EU.
No country will be able to wring any meaningful concession out of the EU on anything. This is because, to allow any concession could result in the unelected, totally undemocratic dictatorship having to offer concessions to other countries later on. They fear a cascade of concessions once they allow one, so it won't happen. The EU bureaucrats wish to remain powerful and that's one way they achieve this - by not giving way on anything. If we want to prosper, we have to get out.
Guybrush said:
No country will be able to wring any meaningful concession out of the EU on anything. This is because, to allow any concession could result in the unelected, totally undemocratic dictatorship having to offer concessions to other countries later on. They fear a cascade of concessions once they allow one, so it won't happen. The EU bureaucrats wish to remain powerful and that's one way they achieve this - by not giving way on anything. If we want to prosper, we have to get out.
that's probably true...the issue is that if/when we leave, how will they make up for the loss of it's second largest (financial) member/contributor?
That will leave Germany/France/Italy under some intense pressure
Scuffers said:
Guybrush said:
No country will be able to wring any meaningful concession out of the EU on anything. This is because, to allow any concession could result in the unelected, totally undemocratic dictatorship having to offer concessions to other countries later on. They fear a cascade of concessions once they allow one, so it won't happen. The EU bureaucrats wish to remain powerful and that's one way they achieve this - by not giving way on anything. If we want to prosper, we have to get out.
that's probably true...the issue is that if/when we leave, how will they make up for the loss of it's second largest (financial) member/contributor?
That will leave Germany/France/Italy under some intense pressure
Guybrush said:
No country will be able to wring any meaningful concession out of the EU on anything. This is because, to allow any concession could result in the unelected, totally undemocratic dictatorship having to offer concessions to other countries later on. They fear a cascade of concessions once they allow one, so it won't happen. The EU bureaucrats wish to remain powerful and that's one way they achieve this - by not giving way on anything. If we want to prosper, we have to get out.
Generally I'd agree, but if the concessions requested appeal to the electorates of the more powerful nations I can see a little potential. Especially considering what's been happening in Europe lately. The UK leaving will also set potentially dangerous precedents for the EU remember. But I strongly suspect CMD (or anyone) will not be able to win anything material.
(I'll be an out voter. The EU construct is no better than the likes of FIFA. It's grown beyond it's station and has been a negative influence for a long time now.)
Scuffers said:
that's probably true...
the issue is that if/when we leave, how will they make up for the loss of it's second largest (financial) member/contributor?
That will leave Germany/France/Italy under some intense pressure
I have no doubt that the EU politicos have already planned for such an event. When we/the UK Brexits there will be a period of pain for Brussels and the remaining member states but they will survive as they'll simply talk their way out of any difficulty, the same as they do now...and simply raise more 'virtual Euros' in the same way as they did to retain Greece within their dirty mitts. The difficult part for Brussels will be to retain the other member states within the EU Club, not so much the poorer eastern European countries, but the tier.2 western European countries.the issue is that if/when we leave, how will they make up for the loss of it's second largest (financial) member/contributor?
That will leave Germany/France/Italy under some intense pressure
The UK/EU trading agreements will remain largely in tact, with supply of UK goods continuing within the same/similar bi-lateral agreements. However, what is of more interest is 1. an independent UK regaining freedom of her national waters and the fishing rights that have been stolen from us for the past 40 years - this puts the UK in a very strong financial position. 2. the EU will not risk placing additional levies on UK goods, UK/EU trading will operate under the EEA banner...however, our real advantage is trading with non-EU countries...as our products and services can be traded globally on our own terms without any EU interference and this will again make UK plc VERY competitive. 3. I see our specialist design and engineering industries [automotive and aviation] and our financial services and banking becoming even stronger without Brussels policy strangleholds; especially the FS/banking sector as Paris and Frankfurt stock exchanges become heavily marginalized. North and South America, Africa, Middle East, Asia and Russia will gain as they'll no longer have to faff around with EU policy and their goods being overpriced due to EU import tax. We might even start seeing non-EU standardized bananas and strawberries again!
Edited by v8250 on Wednesday 16th December 08:38
turbobloke said:
EU ministers are on Bloomberg as reportedly urging CMD to back down on his demands or face defeat in negotiations. That must be what passes for choice in the 'democratic' world of EU fantasy fiction.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-15/...But is this part of the planned arguments?
Esseesse said:
turbobloke said:
EU ministers are on Bloomberg as reportedly urging CMD to back down on his demands or face defeat in negotiations. That must be what passes for choice in the 'democratic' world of EU fantasy fiction.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-15/...But is this part of the planned arguments?
Esseesse said:
Quite possibly, but what a useless article...and similar to this from last month, lots of waffle, no meat.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32695399
Even worse is Junkers statement...
>Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission, has said he is ready to work with Mr Cameron to "strike a fair deal for the United Kingdom in the EU"<<
I should bloody well hope so...the sheer arrogance of Junkers. The UK does not exist to serve the EU and the £13+Bn they extract from the UK taxpayer. This United States of Europe, this politically centric federal entity urgently needs stopping. CMD will not get any concessions of meaningful substance as any concession will contravene the basic unity of EU treaties.
I really do struggle with the incompetence and absolute lack of common sense to address the real issues within the EU member states, the zero control of immigration, the extreme financial destruction caused by excess immigration, the out of control EU budgets, the inability to reconcile the EU annual accounts for the past 13+ years, the inability to realize the Euro currency is a non-entity but as a virtual entity is crippling the Euro members to the point of financial ruin of once prosperous countries...
...if they were running a business at best they would be fired with no severance, told to clear their desk and be escorted out of the building pending legal investigation...in reality they'd be behind bars for their activities.
As for...
>>Mr Cameron said he did not want to reveal full details of his negotiating hand before serious discussions get under way.<<
What he's really stating is that he dares not to disclose full detail of his demands as he knows these concessions will never be met. The fall out of his open non-achievement, his failure, would be too politically painful.
One thing I wonder is how a Brexit will affect the opinions of the other non-Eurozone states.
Considering that of the 9 nations which are net contributors, yes 9 support 28, of those 9 then 3 are outside the eurozone. We already know Denmark is brassed off, seeing as they keep returning the wrong answers, at least wrong for Europhiles. My friends and ex-colleagues in Sweden confirm things are almost worse than is reported here. I could see DK and SE having a cold hard look at exit too dependent upon what happens in event of Brexit.
Edited my post to amend a stupid error, affect not effect, schoolboy error, sorry. Any fule knos that!
And again due to resident fule Rovinghawk's intervention. Detention for me.
Considering that of the 9 nations which are net contributors, yes 9 support 28, of those 9 then 3 are outside the eurozone. We already know Denmark is brassed off, seeing as they keep returning the wrong answers, at least wrong for Europhiles. My friends and ex-colleagues in Sweden confirm things are almost worse than is reported here. I could see DK and SE having a cold hard look at exit too dependent upon what happens in event of Brexit.
Edited my post to amend a stupid error, affect not effect, schoolboy error, sorry. Any fule knos that!
And again due to resident fule Rovinghawk's intervention. Detention for me.
Edited by FiF on Thursday 17th December 00:22
FiF said:
Considering that of the 9 nations which are net contributors, yes 9 support 28, of those 9 then 3 are outside the eurozone. We already know Denmark is brassed off, seeing as they keep returning the wrong answers, at least wrong for Europhiles. My friends and ex-colleagues in Sweden confirm things are almost worse than is reported here. I could see DK and SE having a cold hard look at exit too dependant upon what happens in event of Brexit.
Ever wondered what a giant wealth-redistribution scheme looks like...? 
FiF said:
One thing I wonder is how a Brexit will effect the opinions of the other non-Eurozone states.
Considering that of the 9 nations which are net contributors, yes 9 support 28, of those 9 then 3 are outside the eurozone. We already know Denmark is brassed off, seeing as they keep returning the wrong answers, at least wrong for Europhiles. My friends and ex-colleagues in Sweden confirm things are almost worse than is reported here. I could see DK and SE having a cold hard look at exit too dependant upon what happens in event of Brexit.
FiF, this is a very good point and on the understanding that we do Brexit I can see it's only a matter of time before DK and SE do the same. I have no first hand experience of Sweden but the horror stories hitting international press over the past few years are worsening...it appears almost weekly...there's a good thread here within NP&E and surely it's only time before the Swedes say 'Enough...!' I do have first hand experience of Denmark and have very good friends there...and to be frank, it's not much better, but, I remember how bad it was some 15 years ago when the friends were visiting us here in Blighty. The husband, who's Danish and the most liberal socialist one could meet, explained the huge immigration issues and the fact that the EU was not only the instigator of their excessive national problems but that it was, like Sweden, getting much worse.Considering that of the 9 nations which are net contributors, yes 9 support 28, of those 9 then 3 are outside the eurozone. We already know Denmark is brassed off, seeing as they keep returning the wrong answers, at least wrong for Europhiles. My friends and ex-colleagues in Sweden confirm things are almost worse than is reported here. I could see DK and SE having a cold hard look at exit too dependant upon what happens in event of Brexit.
Since that time 15 years ago, I see parallel social structure as here in the UK...the traditional Danes[British] being constantly marginalized in favour of immigrants whose conclave type living and lack of social integration is being paid for by the incumbent population...population who are fed up with this type of social injustice, and a social injustice that is completely outside their control as it is not the Danish[British] Govt who are calling the shots, it's Brussels.
So, time will tell and one can only hope that when we Brexit, the Swedes and Danes will do the same leaving only 6 net contributors; at this stage, the EU-fat-o-cats will sit up and take notice.
To end, it is of interest the European-wide support the EFDD are getting...both within member states and further afield within the EEA. It's worth looking up the videos on Youtube to see the popularity of this Leave The EU group...and although it's co-chaired by Nigel Farage, support for him and the EFDD is huge across many European countries.
v8250 said:
FiF, this is a very good point and on the understanding that we do Brexit I can see it's only a matter of time before DK and SE do the same. I have no first hand experience of Sweden but the horror stories hitting international press over the past few years are worsening...it appears almost weekly...there's a good thread here within NP&E and surely it's only time before the Swedes say 'Enough...!' I do have first hand experience of Denmark and have very good friends there...and to be frank, it's not much better, but, I remember how bad it was some 15 years ago when the friends were visiting us here in Blighty. The husband, who's Danish and the most liberal socialist one could meet, explained the huge immigration issues and the fact that the EU was not only the instigator of their excessive national problems but that it was, like Sweden, getting much worse.
Since that time 15 years ago, I see parallel social structure as here in the UK...the traditional Danes[British] being constantly marginalized in favour of immigrants whose conclave type living and lack of social integration is being paid for by the incumbent population...population who are fed up with this type of social injustice, and a social injustice that is completely outside their control as it is not the Danish[British] Govt who are calling the shots, it's Brussels.
So, time will tell and one can only hope that when we Brexit, the Swedes and Danes will do the same leaving only 6 net contributors; at this stage, the EU-fat-o-cats will sit up and take notice.
To end, it is of interest the European-wide support the EFDD are getting...both within member states and further afield within the EEA. It's worth looking up the videos on Youtube to see the popularity of this Leave The EU group...and although it's co-chaired by Nigel Farage, support for him and the EFDD is huge across many European countries.
Dear Denmark & Sweden Since that time 15 years ago, I see parallel social structure as here in the UK...the traditional Danes[British] being constantly marginalized in favour of immigrants whose conclave type living and lack of social integration is being paid for by the incumbent population...population who are fed up with this type of social injustice, and a social injustice that is completely outside their control as it is not the Danish[British] Govt who are calling the shots, it's Brussels.
So, time will tell and one can only hope that when we Brexit, the Swedes and Danes will do the same leaving only 6 net contributors; at this stage, the EU-fat-o-cats will sit up and take notice.
To end, it is of interest the European-wide support the EFDD are getting...both within member states and further afield within the EEA. It's worth looking up the videos on Youtube to see the popularity of this Leave The EU group...and although it's co-chaired by Nigel Farage, support for him and the EFDD is huge across many European countries.
The UK is thinking about leaving the EU - We are keen to continue trading with you and Im sure you are as well. We will be pleased to negotiate suitable deals that are mutually beneficial to the 3 countries without the overheads and red tape and cost of the EU.
Love n kisses
UK plc
superlightr said:
Dear Denmark & Sweden
The UK is thinking about leaving the EU - We are keen to continue trading with you and Im sure you are as well. We will be pleased to negotiate suitable deals that are mutually beneficial to the 3 countries without the overheads and red tape and cost of the EU.
Love n kisses
UK plc
One would hope the party's concerned have already had this discussion...and there's always lots of love and kisses within the FCO and diplomatic corps of interested countries, some consular parties are legendary The UK is thinking about leaving the EU - We are keen to continue trading with you and Im sure you are as well. We will be pleased to negotiate suitable deals that are mutually beneficial to the 3 countries without the overheads and red tape and cost of the EU.
Love n kisses
UK plc
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