The 'No to the EU' campaign
Discussion
Angela Merkel has been out pontificating about terms and conditions and what can and can't be negotiated it seems - hands up for any one here in the UK who voted for this woman who seems to be dictating policy that has a bearing on the UK?
Anyone?
What authority does this woman have over EU decision making and should her voice count more than Mr Camerons within Europe, if so - why?
Anyone?
What authority does this woman have over EU decision making and should her voice count more than Mr Camerons within Europe, if so - why?
Edited by Axionknight on Wednesday 16th December 21:57
Axionknight said:
Angela Merkel has been out pontificating about terms and conditions and what can and can't be negotiated it seems - hands up for any one here in the UK who voted for this woman who seems to be dictating policy that has a bearing on the UK?
Anyone?
What authority does this woman have over EU decision making and should her voice count more than Mr Camerons within Europe, if so - why?
Merkel , Like CMD is the leader of a large net contributor country ... and perhaps gettign cold feet about supporting the rest of europe as well as the still poor parts of the former east germany without UK (and as suggested some of the other net contributors outside the euro ) money and votes Anyone?
What authority does this woman have over EU decision making and should her voice count more than Mr Camerons within Europe, if so - why?
Edited by Axionknight on Wednesday 16th December 21:57
Axionknight said:
What authority does this woman have over EU decision making and should her voice count more than Mr Camerons within Europe, if so - why?
Germany is the most powerful country in Europe. Tangentially: Peter Hitchens - The EU is the Continuation of Germany By Other MeansEdited by Esseesse on Thursday 17th December 00:51
Axionknight said:
Angela Merkel has been out pontificating about terms and conditions and what can and can't be negotiated it seems - hands up for any one here in the UK who voted for this woman who seems to be dictating policy that has a bearing on the UK?
Anyone?
What authority does this woman have over EU decision making and should her voice count more than Mr Camerons within Europe, if so - why?
Germany has the largest voting power in EU a bit like England has the biggest voting power in the UK. Anyone?
What authority does this woman have over EU decision making and should her voice count more than Mr Camerons within Europe, if so - why?
Edited by Axionknight on Wednesday 16th December 21:57
Hence she has some leverage - UK is 3rd in the pecking order after France.
Beati Dogu said:
The pecking order is very much this:
Germany ........... France ..................................................................Everyone else.
IF UK was in the € we'd be in a vastly stronger position more so if we were in Schegen. Germany ........... France ..................................................................Everyone else.
However I'm very glad we are not and never want us to be
AJS- said:
Welshbeef said:
IF UK was in the € we'd be in a vastly stronger position more so if we were in Schegen.
However I'm very glad we are not and never want us to be
Like Italy, Spain and Holland are? I'm very glad we don't have that sort of 'strength' either.However I'm very glad we are not and never want us to be
only way we can negotiate in any meaningful way is by leaving.
What will be interesting is to see what happens now the US Fed have raised interest rates.
Interesting piece from Guido today:
http://order-order.com/2015/12/17/migration-data-s...
Essentially an FOI request to identify the number of National Insurance Numbers that have been released to immigrants has been denied as it could be detrimental to Governmental policy during re-negotiations with Europe.
My take on this is similar to the Portes' chaps. As in it could be being suppressed because the numbers are much higher than the government would want to admit or show and could give the exit-campaign a massive fillip. This may or may not be true but they shouldn't suppress it using that as a reason as surely it only leads to increased suspicion of the data being manipulated?
I'm an undecided voter on this issue and so want as much factual information as possible to make an informed decision, suppressing key info like this is not a particular good sign
http://order-order.com/2015/12/17/migration-data-s...
Essentially an FOI request to identify the number of National Insurance Numbers that have been released to immigrants has been denied as it could be detrimental to Governmental policy during re-negotiations with Europe.
My take on this is similar to the Portes' chaps. As in it could be being suppressed because the numbers are much higher than the government would want to admit or show and could give the exit-campaign a massive fillip. This may or may not be true but they shouldn't suppress it using that as a reason as surely it only leads to increased suspicion of the data being manipulated?
I'm an undecided voter on this issue and so want as much factual information as possible to make an informed decision, suppressing key info like this is not a particular good sign
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
More rhetorical clap trap from CMD and the BBC. Expect much much more of this as the weeks and months progress...
More rhetorical clap trap from CMD and the BBC. Expect much much more of this as the weeks and months progress...
Mannginger said:
Interesting piece from Guido today:
http://order-order.com/2015/12/17/migration-data-s...
Essentially an FOI request to identify the number of National Insurance Numbers that have been released to immigrants has been denied as it could be detrimental to Governmental policy during re-negotiations with Europe.
My take on this is similar to the Portes' chaps. As in it could be being suppressed because the numbers are much higher than the government would want to admit or show and could give the exit-campaign a massive fillip. This may or may not be true but they shouldn't suppress it using that as a reason as surely it only leads to increased suspicion of the data being manipulated?
I'm an undecided voter on this issue and so want as much factual information as possible to make an informed decision, suppressing key info like this is not a particular good sign
This interesting and has been point of discussion a number of times...though I don't believe as yet on PH. This information is a real hornets nest for the Govt as it will give clear figures to the levels of immigration and the sheer volume of those able to claim benefits. Now, whilst net immigration figures are available from the ONS, the difference between the two will show the numbers of those claiming citizenship...and this is something the Govt wants to suppress...a policy of madness, of course. Why not simply publish the true figures annually? Surely, there's nothing to hide...?http://order-order.com/2015/12/17/migration-data-s...
Essentially an FOI request to identify the number of National Insurance Numbers that have been released to immigrants has been denied as it could be detrimental to Governmental policy during re-negotiations with Europe.
My take on this is similar to the Portes' chaps. As in it could be being suppressed because the numbers are much higher than the government would want to admit or show and could give the exit-campaign a massive fillip. This may or may not be true but they shouldn't suppress it using that as a reason as surely it only leads to increased suspicion of the data being manipulated?
I'm an undecided voter on this issue and so want as much factual information as possible to make an informed decision, suppressing key info like this is not a particular good sign
I say actively publish the NI numbers...and peoples place of origin, religion, first language, do they have a job arranged, are they claiming under EU regulation, are they claiming students visas; expose the immigration crisis in it's entirety.
As for being inappropriate/detrimental to the current EU negotiations, what utter b
ks. All parties concerned with these negotiations [read: waffle concluding in zero concessions] has access to and/or know the NI figures.v8250 said:
Mannginger said:
Interesting piece from Guido today:
http://order-order.com/2015/12/17/migration-data-s...
Essentially an FOI request to identify the number of National Insurance Numbers that have been released to immigrants has been denied as it could be detrimental to Governmental policy during re-negotiations with Europe.
My take on this is similar to the Portes' chaps. As in it could be being suppressed because the numbers are much higher than the government would want to admit or show and could give the exit-campaign a massive fillip. This may or may not be true but they shouldn't suppress it using that as a reason as surely it only leads to increased suspicion of the data being manipulated?
I'm an undecided voter on this issue and so want as much factual information as possible to make an informed decision, suppressing key info like this is not a particular good sign
This interesting and has been point of discussion a number of times...though I don't believe as yet on PH. This information is a real hornets nest for the Govt as it will give clear figures to the levels of immigration and the sheer volume of those able to claim benefits. Now, whilst net immigration figures are available from the ONS, the difference between the two will show the numbers of those claiming citizenship...and this is something the Govt wants to suppress...a policy of madness, of course. Why not simply publish the true figures annually? Surely, there's nothing to hide...?http://order-order.com/2015/12/17/migration-data-s...
Essentially an FOI request to identify the number of National Insurance Numbers that have been released to immigrants has been denied as it could be detrimental to Governmental policy during re-negotiations with Europe.
My take on this is similar to the Portes' chaps. As in it could be being suppressed because the numbers are much higher than the government would want to admit or show and could give the exit-campaign a massive fillip. This may or may not be true but they shouldn't suppress it using that as a reason as surely it only leads to increased suspicion of the data being manipulated?
I'm an undecided voter on this issue and so want as much factual information as possible to make an informed decision, suppressing key info like this is not a particular good sign
I say actively publish the NI numbers...and peoples place of origin, religion, first language, do they have a job arranged, are they claiming under EU regulation, are they claiming students visas; expose the immigration crisis in it's entirety.
As for being inappropriate/detrimental to the current EU negotiations, what utter b
ks. All parties concerned with these negotiations [read: waffle concluding in zero concessions] has access to and/or know the NI figures.As an aside, one thing that's becoming increasingly evident, as a tier 4 visa sponsor, is the increasing number of applications for studentships from individuals already here on a tier 2 (i.e. working) visa that has ended, or is being revoked, who now apply for a tier 4 (i.e. student) visa as their only hope of remaining is to become a student. Some of the applications are hopeless, sometimes because of academic issues, but often because it's obvious that their tier 2 visa is being revoked because the work sponsor was all a bit dodgy. Certainly there's a fair few applications from particular areas in UK that look especially iffy.
If places are offered with tier 4 sponsorship and any more than a very small % are ultimately turned down by UKV&I then the university gets investigated and may lose tier 4 status with the obvious knock on effects to incoming fees. So what happens is that borderline applications just don't get offered a place to be on the safe side. Suspect what's gone on in the past though doesn't bear thinking about.
Okay, we all have good individual view points on the EU, Brexit and the varying protagonists...but how many of you know today which way you'll be voting come the referendum? I guess by now you all know I'm an 'out', but how many of you are active on this subject with Leave.EU stickers on your cars? If you don't yet have one the Leave.EU team will send one straight out to you https://leave.eu/
Those numbers are here
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Notice the numbers contradict the often quoted 600k arrival figure, also notice Romanian immigration is up by 56 percent over the previous year. Notice also the distinct lack of airtime UKIP have had over the last few months. Call me Dave already watering down, the already watered down demands that he will be asking the EU to adopt.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Notice the numbers contradict the often quoted 600k arrival figure, also notice Romanian immigration is up by 56 percent over the previous year. Notice also the distinct lack of airtime UKIP have had over the last few months. Call me Dave already watering down, the already watered down demands that he will be asking the EU to adopt.
deltaevo16 said:
Those numbers are here
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Notice the numbers contradict the often quoted 600k arrival figure, also notice Romanian immigration is up by 56 percent over the previous year. Notice also the distinct lack of airtime UKIP have had over the last few months. Call me Dave already watering down, the already watered down demands that he will be asking the EU to adopt.
Yes, I think the media has been 'got at' somehow. Not exactly 'balanced'.https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Notice the numbers contradict the often quoted 600k arrival figure, also notice Romanian immigration is up by 56 percent over the previous year. Notice also the distinct lack of airtime UKIP have had over the last few months. Call me Dave already watering down, the already watered down demands that he will be asking the EU to adopt.
deltaevo16 said:
Those numbers are here
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Notice the numbers contradict the often quoted 600k arrival figure, also notice Romanian immigration is up by 56 percent over the previous year. Notice also the distinct lack of airtime UKIP have had over the last few months. Call me Dave already watering down, the already watered down demands that he will be asking the EU to adopt.
that's not what he was asking them for.https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Notice the numbers contradict the often quoted 600k arrival figure, also notice Romanian immigration is up by 56 percent over the previous year. Notice also the distinct lack of airtime UKIP have had over the last few months. Call me Dave already watering down, the already watered down demands that he will be asking the EU to adopt.
he wanted to know how many *active* NI numbers there were, as in of all the ones allocated, how many were being used for either payments or benefits, broken down by year allocated, nationality, etc.
More verbal diatribe from cmd. EU negotiations, pathway for a deal found...does cmd really believe the UK electorate are so dumb as to believe whatever 'deal' is done, that it won't be a cover-up and with little genuine substance to benefit the UK? Read carefully Hollande's remark, 'but EU rules and principles must be respected...'
Also looks like the BBC's being very carefully guided in what to say on this subject...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35128648
Also looks like the BBC's being very carefully guided in what to say on this subject...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35128648
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