The 'No to the EU' campaign
Discussion
turbobloke said:
My view is that there are plenty of voters who will be voting 'Out' viscerally as opposed to analytically, in which case arguments involving analytics won't be of much use to the campaign bods for the Inners.
My view is that there will be LOTS of voters who haven't a clue WTF they're voting for. But they'll vote anyway. (I predict a Then a riot.
mph1977 said:
turbobloke said:
mph1977 said:
plus the reality that the FUD over out is real and not just as some presume set dressing by in ...
People are seeing with their eyes the risks of being in, and staying in, a shambles in which (for example) the EZ is teetering on the brink. There's plenty of FUD on both sides. Something I think most thinking people knew anyway...
"'EU law will always prevail': Leading British law officer says David Cameron's plan to win back British sovereignty won't work unless we quit the EU..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3433469/To...
"'EU law will always prevail': Leading British law officer says David Cameron's plan to win back British sovereignty won't work unless we quit the EU..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3433469/To...
Guybrush said:
Something I think most thinking people knew anyway...
"'EU law will always prevail': Leading British law officer says David Cameron's plan to win back British sovereignty won't work unless we quit the EU..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3433469/To...
Dr Richard North (EU Referendum blog) clarifying the debate about the results of the "negotiations" being binding. As usual he quotes the relevant article paragraphs etc rather than just relying on what somebody has told him."'EU law will always prevail': Leading British law officer says David Cameron's plan to win back British sovereignty won't work unless we quit the EU..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3433469/To...
Not binding at all, and that Cameron has lied to the House.
It's a shame Norths knowledge is not used more by the mainstream press, probably because he always slags them off so much of course.
steveatesh said:
Guybrush said:
Something I think most thinking people knew anyway...
"'EU law will always prevail': Leading British law officer says David Cameron's plan to win back British sovereignty won't work unless we quit the EU..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3433469/To...
Dr Richard North (EU Referendum blog) clarifying the debate about the results of the "negotiations" being binding. As usual he quotes the relevant article paragraphs etc rather than just relying on what somebody has told him."'EU law will always prevail': Leading British law officer says David Cameron's plan to win back British sovereignty won't work unless we quit the EU..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3433469/To...
Not binding at all, and that Cameron has lied to the House.
EU context, naturally.
Listening to R4 this morning and the consensus was that Cameron would have to resign if he led the In campaign and lost. Really? Yes, his credibility be damaged (his "deal" would have been rejected) but he wasn't elected to keep us in the EU. He tried to renegotiate, he got whatever "thin gruel" he could and presented that to the people - all as promised.
AstonZagato said:
Listening to R4 this morning and the consensus was that Cameron would have to resign if he led the In campaign and lost. Really? Yes, his credibility be damaged (his "deal" would have been rejected) but he wasn't elected to keep us in the EU. He tried to renegotiate, he got whatever "thin gruel" he could and presented that to the people - all as promised.
Problem is that CMD appears to be a committed 'inner'. How could he credibly lead the negotiations for exit? AstonZagato said:
Listening to R4 this morning and the consensus was that Cameron would have to resign if he led the In campaign and lost. Really? Yes, his credibility be damaged (his "deal" would have been rejected) but he wasn't elected to keep us in the EU. He tried to renegotiate, he got whatever "thin gruel" he could and presented that to the people - all as promised.
But do we know if he negotiated through a position of strength-not adopting the Euro and not being part of the Schengen agreement?Scuffers said:
s2art said:
Problem is that CMD appears to be a committed 'inner'. How could he credibly lead the negotiations for exit?
Exactly...So, what happens next?
s2art said:
If Cameron still in charge, then he would have to appoint a credible negotiating team. How about Redwood (its only logical), Rees-Mogg (to snob them to death), Davies (the Muscle), Cash (bore them into submission) and Boris (create confusion/distraction etc). May as well throw Farage into the mix as a shouty irritant. With that bunch their team will just want to get it over with very quickly.
Good suggestion. Could I suggest that Dan Hannan be included.If you don't know who he is, then watch this wonderful Youtube speech:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs
So 44 Conservative party chairman have written to Cameron warning him about the disdain he has shown telling MPs to ignore the opinions of the grassroots constituency members and that there will be repercussions. He does not have a right to rule.
Meanwhile His Nigelness reckons he can sway the referendum. Not with the arguments you're presenting on your own Nige, you need more ideas and points than those.
Yet again the Telegraph shows up EU waste, apparently there's a fleet of private jets just for Juncker's etc to commute around the place. Journeys such as Brussels to Strasbourg which are amply covered by train and commercial flights.
Gove also needs to man up and stop wavering and go with his Eurosceptic tendencies. Come on Michael you've got more spine than this.
Carswell, needs to grow up.
Meanwhile His Nigelness reckons he can sway the referendum. Not with the arguments you're presenting on your own Nige, you need more ideas and points than those.
Yet again the Telegraph shows up EU waste, apparently there's a fleet of private jets just for Juncker's etc to commute around the place. Journeys such as Brussels to Strasbourg which are amply covered by train and commercial flights.
Gove also needs to man up and stop wavering and go with his Eurosceptic tendencies. Come on Michael you've got more spine than this.
Carswell, needs to grow up.
Richard North covers the emergency brake in fine style here:
http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=8...
I thought this bit was particularly pertinent:
"One can only imagine the transformative effect the detail might have, if prominently featured in the British media, pointing out that Mr Cameron was relying on a provision of the EEA Agreement, in force since 1994 and which could have been implemented at any time since.
What would also be interesting to see would be the effect this would have on the debate when it was pointed out that Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein have the power to invoke this provision unilaterally (and that Liechtenstein already has), whereas the UK requires the permission of the European commission".
So the emergency brake is already in place and Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein have more say in it than we will have.
Sadly he has pointed this all out to a Journalist who for one reason or another has not followed through with an article in their newspaper.
http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=8...
I thought this bit was particularly pertinent:
"One can only imagine the transformative effect the detail might have, if prominently featured in the British media, pointing out that Mr Cameron was relying on a provision of the EEA Agreement, in force since 1994 and which could have been implemented at any time since.
What would also be interesting to see would be the effect this would have on the debate when it was pointed out that Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein have the power to invoke this provision unilaterally (and that Liechtenstein already has), whereas the UK requires the permission of the European commission".
So the emergency brake is already in place and Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein have more say in it than we will have.
Sadly he has pointed this all out to a Journalist who for one reason or another has not followed through with an article in their newspaper.
Bullett said:
From the Times
"The YouGov survey found that 45 per cent of people will vote to leave the EU compared with 36 per cent who want to remain, while 19 per cent do not know or would not vote. Excluding the “don’t knows”, this means 56 per cent want to leave while 44 per cent want to remain."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/articl...
I'm not sure it actually matters, however we vote it will be a vote to stay. The EU has a long and shameful history of ignoring the electorate when they don't like the result"The YouGov survey found that 45 per cent of people will vote to leave the EU compared with 36 per cent who want to remain, while 19 per cent do not know or would not vote. Excluding the “don’t knows”, this means 56 per cent want to leave while 44 per cent want to remain."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/articl...
Norfolkit said:
Bullett said:
From the Times
"The YouGov survey found that 45 per cent of people will vote to leave the EU compared with 36 per cent who want to remain, while 19 per cent do not know or would not vote. Excluding the “don’t knows”, this means 56 per cent want to leave while 44 per cent want to remain."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/articl...
I'm not sure it actually matters, however we vote it will be a vote to stay. The EU has a long and shameful history of ignoring the electorate when they don't like the result"The YouGov survey found that 45 per cent of people will vote to leave the EU compared with 36 per cent who want to remain, while 19 per cent do not know or would not vote. Excluding the “don’t knows”, this means 56 per cent want to leave while 44 per cent want to remain."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/articl...
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