The 'No to the EU' campaign
Discussion
FiF said:
Whilst agreeing that NP&E doesn't show a representative cross section there are plenty of posters who didn't and wouldn't for UKIP, and the sheer volume of disagreement amply demonstrates the fallacy of the single right wing entity claim.
The post says more about the poster's bias and sour grapes than demonstrating any informed comment to be taken semi seriously.
Just one example for most of this thread I have been arguing against the UKIP position as being more hindrance to the leave campaign than help.
Yes Nigel's common sense will never do will it !!! Beter listen to CMD's smoke and mirrors or labour fear mongering maybe some SNP bile or even drivel from the greens.....The post says more about the poster's bias and sour grapes than demonstrating any informed comment to be taken semi seriously.
Just one example for most of this thread I have been arguing against the UKIP position as being more hindrance to the leave campaign than help.
FredClogs said:
The Daily Express? Seriously. The Daily Express accusing someone else of duplicity and being economical with the truth!
Clearly some people are yet to discover the simple difference between primary sources and secondary sources.Downing Street admitted the Brussels deal could be watered down after the EU referendum. At least direct your annoyance to the right place. Not that it's needed...is it not clear that legislation will have to by passed by the European Parliament's MEPs to bring the measures into force? That's not a foregone conclusion.
From this it looks as though the date will be sooner rather than later.
powerstroke said:
Yes Nigel's common sense will never do will it !!! Beter listen to CMD's smoke and mirrors or labour fear mongering maybe some SNP bile or even drivel from the greens.....
No doubt Satsuma Reed will scoff at the source, but nobody can doubt Peter Tatchell's credentials and left leaning history when he writes in the TelegraphThe intolerant student Left has even turned on me – a lifelong civil rights campaigner
Spittle flecked bile heading PHwards no doubt. As TB says none so blind.
turbobloke said:
FredClogs said:
The Daily Express? Seriously. The Daily Express accusing someone else of duplicity and being economical with the truth!
Clearly some people are yet to discover the simple difference between primary sources and secondary sources.Downing Street admitted the Brussels deal could be watered down after the EU referendum. At least direct your annoyance to the right place. Not that it's needed...is it not clear that legislation will have to by passed by the European Parliament's MEPs to bring the measures into force? That's not a foregone conclusion.
From this it looks as though the date will be sooner rather than later.
Fwiw, it's my opinion that people will either vote in or out at the referendum, those that want out will vote out and those that want in will vote in, the specifics of what In means and the vagaries of international diplomacy and the EU democratic process will be accepted. Which is why I asked what the question on the referendum paper will be?
Any news on who killed Diana on page 3?
In my opinion the real question that should be asked is not In/Out, anyway it won't be that as that's been kicked into touch long ago, nor should it be the currently expected one of Leave or Remain, but it should be a simple one and to the point.
Do you want your country to be ruled by an over arching European government, yes or no. Other wordings are possible, but that is the essential question.
Of course my answer is No, and one suspects the majority if the population would also answer No, hence it won't be put that way to the electorate due to attempts at water muddying.
Do you want your country to be ruled by an over arching European government, yes or no. Other wordings are possible, but that is the essential question.
Of course my answer is No, and one suspects the majority if the population would also answer No, hence it won't be put that way to the electorate due to attempts at water muddying.
FredClogs said:
turbobloke said:
FredClogs said:
The Daily Express? Seriously. The Daily Express accusing someone else of duplicity and being economical with the truth!
Clearly some people are yet to discover the simple difference between primary sources and secondary sources.Downing Street admitted the Brussels deal could be watered down after the EU referendum. At least direct your annoyance to the right place. Not that it's needed...is it not clear that legislation will have to by passed by the European Parliament's MEPs to bring the measures into force? That's not a foregone conclusion.
From this it looks as though the date will be sooner rather than later.
Fwiw, it's my opinion that people will either vote in or out at the referendum, those that want out will vote out and those that want in will vote in, the specifics of what In means and the vagaries of international diplomacy and the EU democratic process will be accepted. Which is why I asked what the question on the referendum paper will be?
Any news on who killed Diana on page 3?
As to who killed Diana it's on p6 and it was Elvis.
A genuine question. Who is Hollandse to agree a `renegotiation deal' with CMD? Is he the controller speaking for `ALL' the other EU member states?
Unless of course he will be telling the other member states how to vote when the subject of the UK`s deal' comes up for confirmation, I don't see how he can make any deal with Camoron.
After any `deal' the EU will do what it had done repeatedly in the past, renege on the `deal' or in the case of France, completely ignore what does not suit France.
Take Bliars `renegotiation' of the CAP in exchange for him giving away a large section of the UK`s hard fought for EU rebate, as a case in point. On past form the EU simply cannot be trusted.
Unless of course he will be telling the other member states how to vote when the subject of the UK`s deal' comes up for confirmation, I don't see how he can make any deal with Camoron.
After any `deal' the EU will do what it had done repeatedly in the past, renege on the `deal' or in the case of France, completely ignore what does not suit France.
Take Bliars `renegotiation' of the CAP in exchange for him giving away a large section of the UK`s hard fought for EU rebate, as a case in point. On past form the EU simply cannot be trusted.
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Tuesday 16th February 11:41
tangerine_sedge said:
fblm said:
That's not much of an improvement but do you not think you might be conflating every opinion you disagree with from hundreds of people, into one non existent caricature and then applying it to all? You are. You've created this image in your head of everyone who disagrees with your opinions, it's absurd and it makes you sound like a complete pillock.
NP&E has seemingly become a single right wing entity though, any attempt to argue any point even slightly left of the UKIP current-thought results in attacks from all sides. This place has become a circle jerk of the same few posters dominating every thread with their multitude of links from obscure right wing sites to support their viewpoint and drowning out any viewpoint opposing them.Most lefties (i.e. anybody who didnt vote Sir Nige) have just given up and gone elsewhere, meaning that this place has become even more onanistic.
Pan Pan Pan said:
A genuine question. Who is Hollandse to agree a `renegotiation deal' with CMD? Is he the controller speaking for `ALL' the other EU member states?
Unless of course he will be telling the other member states how to vote when the subject of the UK`s deal' comes up for confirmation, I don't see how he can make any deal with Camoron.
After any `deal' the EU will do what it had done repeatedly in the past, renege on the `deal' or in the case of France, completely ignore what does not suit France.
Take Bliars `renegotiation' of the CAP in exchange for him giving away a large section of the UK`s hard fought for EU rebate, as a case in point. On past form the EU simply cannot be trusted.
Dr North as usual did a good dissection of Cameron's deal. The wording used in the agreement is largely in [square brackets], meaning it's provisional and subject to later change. Even then, on several points the wording was "this agreement will be inserted into the text of the treaties the next time they are up for modification" . For that to happen, the commission at that point needs to agree to be bound by it's predecessor; and all the countries of the EU have to agree to the modifications; then all of the parliaments of those countries need to ratify them.Unless of course he will be telling the other member states how to vote when the subject of the UK`s deal' comes up for confirmation, I don't see how he can make any deal with Camoron.
After any `deal' the EU will do what it had done repeatedly in the past, renege on the `deal' or in the case of France, completely ignore what does not suit France.
Take Bliars `renegotiation' of the CAP in exchange for him giving away a large section of the UK`s hard fought for EU rebate, as a case in point. On past form the EU simply cannot be trusted.
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Tuesday 16th February 11:41
So the agreement is provisional, and subject to the whims of future governments in 27 other countries. Even if it actually meant anything, which it doesn't.
Yeah, great deal Cam. This is exactly why I want out. It's a fraud, a massive lie.
tangerine_sedge said:
Most lefties (i.e. anybody who didnt vote Sir Nige) have just given up and gone elsewhere, meaning that this place has become even more onanistic.
Bizarre definition of lefty, besides there are plenty here although I certainly understand why many would wish to go somewhere their opinions arn't challenged, like twitter or youtube. Maybe those who stay have the courage of their convictions and wit to defend their politics and those who leave just want to spout opinon unchallenged? Maybe the population of a car forum is far from a random political sample? Maybe shouting down those you disagree with doesn't work so well on a moderated forum? 
turbobloke said:
FiF said:
powerstroke said:
tangerine_sedge said:
NP&E has seemingly become a single right wing entity though, any attempt to argue any point even slightly left of the UKIP current-thought results in attacks from all sides. This place has become a circle jerk of the same few posters dominating every thread with their multitude of links from obscure right wing sites to support their viewpoint and drowning out any viewpoint opposing them.
Most lefties (i.e. anybody who didnt vote Sir Nige) have just given up and gone elsewhere, meaning that this place has become even more onanistic.
Most lefties (i.e. anybody who didnt vote Sir Nige) have just given up and gone elsewhere, meaning that this place has become even more onanistic.
The post says more about the poster's bias and sour grapes than demonstrating any informed comment to be taken semi seriously.
FiF said:
Just one example for most of this thread I have been arguing against the UKIP position as being more hindrance to the leave campaign than help.
Yes very clearly so; there's none so blind as those that see red.tangerine_sedge said:
turbobloke said:
FiF said:
powerstroke said:
tangerine_sedge said:
NP&E has seemingly become a single right wing entity though, any attempt to argue any point even slightly left of the UKIP current-thought results in attacks from all sides. This place has become a circle jerk of the same few posters dominating every thread with their multitude of links from obscure right wing sites to support their viewpoint and drowning out any viewpoint opposing them.
Most lefties (i.e. anybody who didnt vote Sir Nige) have just given up and gone elsewhere, meaning that this place has become even more onanistic.
Most lefties (i.e. anybody who didnt vote Sir Nige) have just given up and gone elsewhere, meaning that this place has become even more onanistic.
The post says more about the poster's bias and sour grapes than demonstrating any informed comment to be taken semi seriously.
FiF said:
Just one example for most of this thread I have been arguing against the UKIP position as being more hindrance to the leave campaign than help.
Yes very clearly so; there's none so blind as those that see red.tangerine_sedge said:
If for one moment you think that this forum represents any viewpoint other than a very narrow far right one, then you are living in fantasyland. Occasionally someone pops up with an alternative viewpoint gets attacked from all sides then goes away again. This place is a great example of group thought in action.
You may be confusing reason and critical thinking for being 'far right'. Far right is associated with fascist (mistakenly, fascism originated from socialist thinking) and dictatorships, whereas most people on this thread (and PH in general) are staunch supporters of democracy.tangerine_sedge said:
If for one moment you think that this forum represents any viewpoint other than a very narrow far right one, then you are living in fantasyland. Occasionally someone pops up with an alternative viewpoint gets attacked from all sides then goes away again. This place is a great example of group thought in action.
far right 
get a grip!
tangerine_sedge said:
If for one moment you think that this forum represents any viewpoint other than a very narrow far right one, then you are living in fantasyland. Occasionally someone pops up with an alternative viewpoint gets attacked from all sides then goes away again. This place is a great example of group thought in action.
Not sure what point you are making ?? Left wing governments are at odds with personal freedom and f
k up the economy, so why would anyone who enjoys working and being self reliant support the views of some mong that thinks there is a magic money tree and wants to spray cash at the feckless , workshy and give the pubic sector an open cheque book..Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff