The 'No to the EU' campaign

[turbobloke]

s2art said:

tangerine_sedge said:

If for one moment you think that this forum represents any viewpoint other than a very narrow far right one, then you are living in fantasyland. Occasionally someone pops up with an alternative viewpoint gets attacked from all sides then goes away again. This place is a great example of group thought in action.

You may be confusing reason and critical thinking for being 'far right'. Far right is associated with fascist (mistakenly, fascism originated from socialist thinking) and dictatorships, whereas most people on this thread (and PH in general) are staunch supporters of democracy.

And in general, apart from the illiberal (!) liberal-left, libertarian in outlook. Irony strikes again, as deep as ever.

fblm said:

far right get a grip!

Yes hilarious stuff from tangerine_sedge, it's the way he/she (?) tells 'em.

[anonymous-user]

SNP are the yes campaigns secret weapon . They would really love us to leave so they would call a referendum again. So we will stay to annoy them & to maintain the union.

[cossy400]

Im late to the party here.

Ive just been watching the news, and they are saying that even if the Moron get a new deal, (which I doubt will be much good) the others or some bloke can just ignore it and do as they please anyway?

So im a little confused as to why anybody thinks its a good idea to stay in??

Also if this is the case why is the Moron even wasting his breath trying to get a new deal?

Im a simple lorry driver though so im sure the educated will know more.

[Einion Yrth]

cossy400 said:

why is the Moron even wasting his breath trying to get a new deal?

He isn't, the ploy is to pretend to have got Britain such a good deal that we all vote in; the deal will be a worthless, non-binding, piece of paper, of course, but he hopes with a compliant media to persuade enough of the electorate to vote "in".

[FiF]

turbobloke said:

tangerine_sedge said:

turbobloke said:

FiF said:

powerstroke said:

tangerine_sedge said:

NP&E has seemingly become a single right wing entity though, any attempt to argue any point even slightly left of the UKIP current-thought results in attacks from all sides. This place has become a circle jerk of the same few posters dominating every thread with their multitude of links from obscure right wing sites to support their viewpoint and drowning out any viewpoint opposing them.

Most lefties (i.e. anybody who didnt vote Sir Nige) have just given up and gone elsewhere, meaning that this place has become even more onanistic.

Whilst agreeing that NP&E doesn't show a representative cross section there are plenty of posters who didn't and wouldn't for UKIP, and the sheer volume of disagreement amply demonstrates the fallacy of the single right wing entity claim.

The post says more about the poster's bias and sour grapes than demonstrating any informed comment to be taken semi seriously.

FiF said:

Just one example for most of this thread I have been arguing against the UKIP position as being more hindrance to the leave campaign than help.

Yes very clearly so; there's none so blind as those that see red.

If for one moment you think that this forum represents any viewpoint other than a very narrow far right one, then you are living in fantasyland.

There's nothing far right about this forum, any slur along those lines is ridiculous. Anyone who thinks far-right fits the bill is deluding themselves. It's not CIF with cars, but then again it never was.

[s2art]

cossy400 said:

Im late to the party here.

Ive just been watching the news, and they are saying that even if the Moron get a new deal, (which I doubt will be much good) the others or some bloke can just ignore it and do as they please anyway?

So im a little confused as to why anybody thinks its a good idea to stay in??

Also if this is the case why is the Moron even wasting his breath trying to get a new deal?

Im a simple lorry driver though so im sure the educated will know more.

Damned if I know. Either Cameron deluded himself that his winning personality would ensure a big enough 'win' to persuade the electorate, or he hoped for a Harold Wilson 'win'. Possibly he is trying to throw the match, but that seems highly unlikely as it would be terminally embarrassing for him politically. Personally I think Camerons only chance to survive this farce is to come back and say that he tried hard but just couldnt get a good enough deal, and cannot recommend stay.

[davepoth]

s2art said:

Personally I think Camerons only chance to survive this farce is to come back and say that he tried hard but just couldnt get a good enough deal, and cannot recommend stay.

He's not planning to survive though - remember he's leaving some time this term anyway.

[handpaper]

FiF said:

No doubt Satsuma Reed will scoff at the source, but nobody can doubt Peter Tatchell's credentials and left leaning history when he writes in the Telegraph

The intolerant student Left has even turned on me – a lifelong civil rights campaigner

Spittle flecked bile heading PHwards no doubt. As TB says none so blind.

Sorry to derail but :


Caption is "Famous imperialist, Peter Tatchell" </sarc>
Well, apart from his hat...

[tangerine_sedge]

FiF said:

turbobloke said:

tangerine_sedge said:

turbobloke said:

FiF said:

powerstroke said:

tangerine_sedge said:

NP&E has seemingly become a single right wing entity though, any attempt to argue any point even slightly left of the UKIP current-thought results in attacks from all sides. This place has become a circle jerk of the same few posters dominating every thread with their multitude of links from obscure right wing sites to support their viewpoint and drowning out any viewpoint opposing them.

Most lefties (i.e. anybody who didnt vote Sir Nige) have just given up and gone elsewhere, meaning that this place has become even more onanistic.

Whilst agreeing that NP&E doesn't show a representative cross section there are plenty of posters who didn't and wouldn't for UKIP, and the sheer volume of disagreement amply demonstrates the fallacy of the single right wing entity claim.

The post says more about the poster's bias and sour grapes than demonstrating any informed comment to be taken semi seriously.

FiF said:

Just one example for most of this thread I have been arguing against the UKIP position as being more hindrance to the leave campaign than help.

Yes very clearly so; there's none so blind as those that see red.

If for one moment you think that this forum represents any viewpoint other than a very narrow far right one, then you are living in fantasyland.

There's nothing far right about this forum, any slur along those lines is ridiculous. Anyone who thinks far-right fits the bill is deluding themselves. It's not CIF with cars, but then again it never was.

OK, I accept far right was the wrong phrase to use, I should have said right of the current Tory party. Mind you, looking ay the responses, I was right about the group think all jumping in to support each other and attack the person with the alternative view. Apparently I'm :

Biased
Showing sour grapes (for what I'm not quite sure?)
Blind
Lacking in critical thinking
Red
Workshy
Feckless
And a joker to boot.

Apparently, all for daring to suggest that this forum is dominated by a narrow political viewpoint...

[s2art]

tangerine_sedge said:

OK, I accept far right was the wrong phrase to use, I should have said right of the current Tory party.

On some things I might be right of the current tories, for instance on free speech (which we currently dont have), on others to the left. For instance I would consider using public money to fund building nuclear power stations, which seems to be an anathema to the Tory party.

[turbobloke]

tangerine_sedge said:

...group think all jumping in to support each other...

That's your interpretation of the responses and it's yet another diagnostic error. Replies have taken different angles. And if you post a group slur which you yourself acknowledge was wide of the mark, you ought not be surprised to find several of those in the group responding. What's more the replies I've read were entirely reasonable.

[alfie2244]

s2art said:

tangerine_sedge said:

OK, I accept far right was the wrong phrase to use, I should have said right of the current Tory party.

On some things I might be right of the current tories, for instance on free speech (which we currently dont have), on others to the left. For instance I would consider using public money to fund building nuclear power stations, which seems to be an anathema to the Tory party.

I just re-did the political compass thingy. Seems to have changed since I last did it.

Sorry TS but according to my results I am definitely not right wing in any way shape or form.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

[davepoth]

In fairness the political compass is American, so would probably have Mussolini down as a liberal.

[alock]

alfie2244 said:

I just re-did the political compass thingy. Seems to have changed since I last did it.

Sorry TS but according to my results I am definitely not right wing in any way shape or form.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

How on earth do you answer those questions. As an example, look at number 2.
"I'd always support my country, whether it was right or wrong."

The word 'always' makes this a binary question. If you partially agree with doing something then you cannot 'always' do it.

Stupid questions will lead to stupid results. I've never got passed this question because I cannot answer it.

[alfie2244]

davepoth said:

In fairness the political compass is American, so would probably have Mussolini down as a liberal.

So this is wrong then?

[s2art]

alfie2244 said:

davepoth said:

In fairness the political compass is American, so would probably have Mussolini down as a liberal.

So this is wrong then?

Must admit, I would have put the SNP as at least as authoritarian as the Tories, and UKIP a bit more libertarian.

[Einion Yrth]

s2art said:

alfie2244 said:

davepoth said:

In fairness the political compass is American, so would probably have Mussolini down as a liberal.

So this is wrong then?

Must admit, I would have put the SNP as at least as authoritarian as the Tories, and UKIP a bit more libertarian.

The Green party? Libertarian? No, I really don't think so.

[turbobloke]

Einion Yrth said:

s2art said:

alfie2244 said:

davepoth said:

In fairness the political compass is American, so would probably have Mussolini down as a liberal.

So this is wrong then?

Must admit, I would have put the SNP as at least as authoritarian as the Tories, and UKIP a bit more libertarian.

The Green party? Libertarian? No, I really don't think so.

Correct. Totalitarian would be accurate.

Also the LibDims have been well left of Labour in many areas for some time and are equally authoritarian.

[alfie2244]

So is it safe to assume this "left / right" stuff a load of bks then? Sorry TS

[don4l]

alfie2244 said:

davepoth said:

In fairness the political compass is American, so would probably have Mussolini down as a liberal.

So this is wrong then?

Do you think that Labour are a right wing party?

Is Cameron's conservative party right wing ?

NP&E seems to be full of left wing nutters these days.

It's all great fun, isn't it?