The 'No to the EU' campaign
Discussion
The only people that will vote to exit the EU will be the Scottish Independence and UKIP crowd. And we all know how that turned out. People are generally sensible and will vote for the least damaging and risk averse option.
The anti crowd as ever will be those with nothing to lose and full of vitriolic nonsense. They will do a fine job of reinforcing the popular view that people with such opinions and judgement have absolutely no business being in charge of anything meaningful.
The anti crowd as ever will be those with nothing to lose and full of vitriolic nonsense. They will do a fine job of reinforcing the popular view that people with such opinions and judgement have absolutely no business being in charge of anything meaningful.
NicD said:
I don't understand your 'certainty'. If what you say has any veracity, explain why DC, voted in by a relative landslide, has made the Ref such a priority?
Because of all the Eurosceptics in the Conservative Party. He doesn't have a majority without them, which he did when he was in coalition (rather perversely). If he wants to govern with any semblance of order he needs to keep them in line. A referendum, whatever the outcome, will shut them up at least until the next over-reaching EU treaty. dvs_dave said:
The only people that will vote to exit the EU will be the Scottish Independence and UKIP crowd. And we all know how that turned out. People are generally sensible and will vote for the least damaging and risk averse option.
The anti crowd as ever will be those with nothing to lose and full of vitriolic nonsense. They will do a fine job of reinforcing the popular view that people with such opinions and judgement have absolutely no business being in charge of anything meaningful.
I was an IN voter, but now I'm not so sure. The fact we are not bombing each other anymore is good but I don't see why not being a fully paid up member of the EU would automatically mean we do less trade with the EU countries. For sure, being in the EU will make it a bit easier, but would the EU stop wanting to sell us products and services if we left? Do they buy our products and services now over the same things from other none EU countries? I don't think so. They will likely buy things that they think are the right price and spec rather than where they were produced. The anti crowd as ever will be those with nothing to lose and full of vitriolic nonsense. They will do a fine job of reinforcing the popular view that people with such opinions and judgement have absolutely no business being in charge of anything meaningful.
We obviously would still need to comply with EU regulations on things we sold to the EU and would have no control over that, but our products would have to comply with which ever country we sold them to which ever that country was, be it the US, China or Germany, so what is the difference?
The issue for me is not one of trade, but the seemingly endless journey to a European super state that we didn't really sign up for originally and people don't really want, governed by people we can't vote out. If we vote to stay in, it will give the EU a mandate for ever increasing regulation and central governance. I don't want that. The whole EU thing needs reigning back in the people running it need to be reminded that they are here to serve us, not we them.
Willy Nilly said:
I was an IN voter, but now I'm not so sure. The fact we are not bombing each other anymore is good but I don't see why not being a fully paid up member of the EU would automatically mean we do less trade with the EU countries. For sure, being in the EU will make it a bit easier, but would the EU stop wanting to sell us products and services if we left? Do they buy our products and services now over the same things from other none EU countries? I don't think so. They will likely buy things that they think are the right price and spec rather than where they were produced.
We obviously would still need to comply with EU regulations on things we sold to the EU and would have no control over that, but our products would have to comply with which ever country we sold them to which ever that country was, be it the US, China or Germany, so what is the difference?
The issue for me is not one of trade, but the seemingly endless journey to a European super state that we didn't really sign up for originally and people don't really want, governed by people we can't vote out. If we vote to stay in, it will give the EU a mandate for ever increasing regulation and central governance. I don't want that. The whole EU thing needs reigning back in the people running it need to be reminded that they are here to serve us, not we them.
I export heavily regulated goods all around the world so I have a little bit of an insight here. As you suggest, market access isn't so much of an issue - Global trade has tended towards reduction of tariffs over the last 40 years, and the EU would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, so to speak, if they refused a free trade deal with a well developed market that was literally next door. We obviously would still need to comply with EU regulations on things we sold to the EU and would have no control over that, but our products would have to comply with which ever country we sold them to which ever that country was, be it the US, China or Germany, so what is the difference?
The issue for me is not one of trade, but the seemingly endless journey to a European super state that we didn't really sign up for originally and people don't really want, governed by people we can't vote out. If we vote to stay in, it will give the EU a mandate for ever increasing regulation and central governance. I don't want that. The whole EU thing needs reigning back in the people running it need to be reminded that they are here to serve us, not we them.
So goods aren't so much of an issue. What is an issue is services, and especially financial services. That's the bit that worries me, but we still don't know too much about how that would work. A Switzerland style arrangement would work well, but whether we can get something like that is another matter.
dvs_dave said:
The only people that will vote to exit the EU will be the Scottish Independence and UKIP crowd.
Huh? The SNP are pro-EU. They see it as the means to continue their socialist largesse once they get shot of the hated English.Quite how they're able to sell "independence" with being a member of the EU & all the bulls
t that entails, is beyond me.davepoth said:
A Switzerland style arrangement would work well, but whether we can get something like that is another matter.
Any "negotiation" with the EU should begin with the words "This is the way it is going to be..."As far as I'm concerned there is no give or take. We hold all the cards.
I am a partner in a financial services company.
We are looking at a move to Dublin, if the vote starts to look like an out.
I'm sure we are not alone.
That doesn't mean I'm blindly pro-EU. I have used the freedom of movement to work abroad. I rather enjoyed that.
I believe that the people should choose. We were never asked whether we wanted to sign up to ever closer union. We were asked if we wanted to join a Common Market. I like the idea of a common market. An overarching super state is less to my taste but, if my fellow citizens want it, so be it.
We are looking at a move to Dublin, if the vote starts to look like an out.
I'm sure we are not alone.
That doesn't mean I'm blindly pro-EU. I have used the freedom of movement to work abroad. I rather enjoyed that.
I believe that the people should choose. We were never asked whether we wanted to sign up to ever closer union. We were asked if we wanted to join a Common Market. I like the idea of a common market. An overarching super state is less to my taste but, if my fellow citizens want it, so be it.
davepoth said:
Willy Nilly said:
I was an IN voter, but now I'm not so sure. The fact we are not bombing each other anymore is good but I don't see why not being a fully paid up member of the EU would automatically mean we do less trade with the EU countries. For sure, being in the EU will make it a bit easier, but would the EU stop wanting to sell us products and services if we left? Do they buy our products and services now over the same things from other none EU countries? I don't think so. They will likely buy things that they think are the right price and spec rather than where they were produced.
We obviously would still need to comply with EU regulations on things we sold to the EU and would have no control over that, but our products would have to comply with which ever country we sold them to which ever that country was, be it the US, China or Germany, so what is the difference?
The issue for me is not one of trade, but the seemingly endless journey to a European super state that we didn't really sign up for originally and people don't really want, governed by people we can't vote out. If we vote to stay in, it will give the EU a mandate for ever increasing regulation and central governance. I don't want that. The whole EU thing needs reigning back in the people running it need to be reminded that they are here to serve us, not we them.
I export heavily regulated goods all around the world so I have a little bit of an insight here. As you suggest, market access isn't so much of an issue - Global trade has tended towards reduction of tariffs over the last 40 years, and the EU would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, so to speak, if they refused a free trade deal with a well developed market that was literally next door. We obviously would still need to comply with EU regulations on things we sold to the EU and would have no control over that, but our products would have to comply with which ever country we sold them to which ever that country was, be it the US, China or Germany, so what is the difference?
The issue for me is not one of trade, but the seemingly endless journey to a European super state that we didn't really sign up for originally and people don't really want, governed by people we can't vote out. If we vote to stay in, it will give the EU a mandate for ever increasing regulation and central governance. I don't want that. The whole EU thing needs reigning back in the people running it need to be reminded that they are here to serve us, not we them.
So goods aren't so much of an issue. What is an issue is services, and especially financial services. That's the bit that worries me, but we still don't know too much about how that would work. A Switzerland style arrangement would work well, but whether we can get something like that is another matter.
Beati Dogu said:
dvs_dave said:
The only people that will vote to exit the EU will be the Scottish Independence and UKIP crowd.
Huh? The SNP are pro-EU. They see it as the means to continue their socialist largesse once they get shot of the hated English.Quite how they're able to sell "independence" with being a member of the EU & all the bulls
t that entails, is beyond me.The other odd thing about the SNP was that they love the EU but were begging their electorate to vote to leave it. This was combined with a transparent lie that they could leave the UK and remain part of the EU. And their followers believed the lie despite overwhelming evidence that they were being fed bullst. All very strange. Part of the Moonie belief system that is Scottish nationalism.
t. All very strange. Part of the Moonie belief system that is Scottish nationalism. The Scottish seperatists would actually prefer an overall 'out' vote with voters in Scotland voting 'in' as this, according to SNP logic, should force a second Scottish independence referendum.
General Election: Second Scottish independence referendum should be held if UK quits the EU, says Nicola Sturgeon
General Election: Second Scottish independence referendum should be held if UK quits the EU, says Nicola Sturgeon
BlackLabel said:
The Scottish seperatists would actually prefer an overall 'out' vote with voters in Scotland voting 'in' as this, according to SNP logic, should force a second Scottish independence referendum.
General Election: Second Scottish independence referendum should be held if UK quits the EU, says Nicola Sturgeon
Aye she dangles a juicey worm doesn't she.General Election: Second Scottish independence referendum should be held if UK quits the EU, says Nicola Sturgeon
REALIST123 said:
Yes, because with the EU's record in fiscal management, everyone would want their financial services businesses to be EU based .......
That's got little to do with it. They will simply make it extremely difficult or impossible to sell financial services into the EU. Easy to restrict, say, EU pension funds trading with non-EU domiciled banks. It's very hard for them to try and shut down the City if you're still in the EU, it won't stop them trying though; the tax receipts are simply too juicy, they want them. It's also been a constant source of embarrassment for them that the center for most Euro fx, asset and derivative trading is London.OK, lets see if this stays in the Bill, certainly hope so.
'In a key concession to the Tory Right and Ukip, David Cameron has ruled that most EU citizens living in Britain should have no say on whether the UK decides to go it alone.
Mr Cameron has also ruled out giving 16 and 17-year-olds a vote in the referendum, which could be held as early as next spring. The details will be published in a Europe Referendum Bill, which will be included in the Queen’s Speech on Wednesday.'
'In a key concession to the Tory Right and Ukip, David Cameron has ruled that most EU citizens living in Britain should have no say on whether the UK decides to go it alone.
Mr Cameron has also ruled out giving 16 and 17-year-olds a vote in the referendum, which could be held as early as next spring. The details will be published in a Europe Referendum Bill, which will be included in the Queen’s Speech on Wednesday.'
NicD said:
OK, lets see if this stays in the Bill, certainly hope so.
'In a key concession to the Tory Right and Ukip, David Cameron has ruled that most EU citizens living in Britain should have no say on whether the UK decides to go it alone.
Mr Cameron has also ruled out giving 16 and 17-year-olds a vote in the referendum, which could be held as early as next spring. The details will be published in a Europe Referendum Bill, which will be included in the Queen’s Speech on Wednesday.'
Yes, hopefully CMD will stick to his guns.'In a key concession to the Tory Right and Ukip, David Cameron has ruled that most EU citizens living in Britain should have no say on whether the UK decides to go it alone.
Mr Cameron has also ruled out giving 16 and 17-year-olds a vote in the referendum, which could be held as early as next spring. The details will be published in a Europe Referendum Bill, which will be included in the Queen’s Speech on Wednesday.'
NicD said:
OK, lets see if this stays in the Bill, certainly hope so.
'In a key concession to the Tory Right and Ukip, David Cameron has ruled that most EU citizens living in Britain should have no say on whether the UK decides to go it alone.
Mr Cameron has also ruled out giving 16 and 17-year-olds a vote in the referendum, which could be held as early as next spring. The details will be published in a Europe Referendum Bill, which will be included in the Queen’s Speech on Wednesday.'
1.5 million eu immigrants will not be allowed to vote apparently ? what about the other several million ?'In a key concession to the Tory Right and Ukip, David Cameron has ruled that most EU citizens living in Britain should have no say on whether the UK decides to go it alone.
Mr Cameron has also ruled out giving 16 and 17-year-olds a vote in the referendum, which could be held as early as next spring. The details will be published in a Europe Referendum Bill, which will be included in the Queen’s Speech on Wednesday.'
AstonZagato said:
I am a partner in a financial services company.
We are looking at a move to Dublin, if the vote starts to look like an out.
I'm sure we are not alone.
That doesn't mean I'm blindly pro-EU. I have used the freedom of movement to work abroad. I rather enjoyed that.
I believe that the people should choose. We were never asked whether we wanted to sign up to ever closer union. We were asked if we wanted to join a Common Market. I like the idea of a common market. An overarching super state is less to my taste but, if my fellow citizens want it, so be it.
Welłl I see one or two benefits, lots of financial service companies would leave London. Instantly dropping house prices and the ratio of knobs to normal people in one fell swoop....We are looking at a move to Dublin, if the vote starts to look like an out.
I'm sure we are not alone.
That doesn't mean I'm blindly pro-EU. I have used the freedom of movement to work abroad. I rather enjoyed that.
I believe that the people should choose. We were never asked whether we wanted to sign up to ever closer union. We were asked if we wanted to join a Common Market. I like the idea of a common market. An overarching super state is less to my taste but, if my fellow citizens want it, so be it.
beeb said:
The Bill will make clear that the franchise will follow broadly the same rules as the general election:
British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK will be eligible to vote.So too will UK nationals who have lived overseas for less than 15 years.The franchise will not include 16 and 17-year-olds, unlike the Scottish independence referendum.Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be allowed to vote, although they cannot participate in general elections.In total, around 45.3 million people will be able to take part.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32872211British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK will be eligible to vote.So too will UK nationals who have lived overseas for less than 15 years.The franchise will not include 16 and 17-year-olds, unlike the Scottish independence referendum.Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be allowed to vote, although they cannot participate in general elections.In total, around 45.3 million people will be able to take part.
robm3 said:
AstonZagato said:
I am a partner in a financial services company.
We are looking at a move to Dublin, if the vote starts to look like an out.
I'm sure we are not alone.
That doesn't mean I'm blindly pro-EU. I have used the freedom of movement to work abroad. I rather enjoyed that.
I believe that the people should choose. We were never asked whether we wanted to sign up to ever closer union. We were asked if we wanted to join a Common Market. I like the idea of a common market. An overarching super state is less to my taste but, if my fellow citizens want it, so be it.
Welll I see one or two benefits, lots of financial service companies would leave London. Instantly dropping house prices and the ratio of knobs to normal people in one fell swoop....We are looking at a move to Dublin, if the vote starts to look like an out.
I'm sure we are not alone.
That doesn't mean I'm blindly pro-EU. I have used the freedom of movement to work abroad. I rather enjoyed that.
I believe that the people should choose. We were never asked whether we wanted to sign up to ever closer union. We were asked if we wanted to join a Common Market. I like the idea of a common market. An overarching super state is less to my taste but, if my fellow citizens want it, so be it.
But other than that, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
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