The 'No to the EU' campaign

[brenflys777]

Bluebarge said:

Besides, if the UK does leave the EU, you may find that the definition of "us" changes a bit as the Scots and the Welsh decide where their best interests lie.

I'd be very surprised if the Welsh decided to leave or campaign to leave the UK to stay in the EU. The UK offers the less densely populated and lower income areas of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland a richer partnership where the SE subsidises them financially and provides England with diversity, land somewhere to put power stations and get water...

The EU is no longer the rich benefactor that it was when it attracted in Southern Ireland, Portugal and Greece etc. Firstly the EU can't afford to subsidise anyone else, a U.K. or even an English exit would significantly cut their budget and influence and the Welsh and the Scottish may not be attractive as members. If the reason for staying is that they receive more in subsidies than they contribute its hard to see how they would persuade the richer members to take them on.

The Scottish risk of independence from the rest of the UK and immediate subservience to the greater EU masters is a more likely event IMO because of the desire to hate the 'Tories' at all costs. The latest Labour Party direction makes it very likely that the anti Tory SNP could take any action regardless of the consequences for Scotland's economy just to shout 'freedom' as the EU civil servants tell them what to do behind the scenes.

[Cheese Mechanic]

Bluebarge said:

Love the way you all call him "Dr North" as if that adds some gravitas to his views. You do know what his PhD was in, don't you?

Thats it, play the man, not the message. Those with their snouts in the eU trough are getting more than a little worried.

[Bluebarge]

FiF said:

Bluebarge said:

Love the way you all call him "Dr North" as if that adds some gravitas to his views. You do know what his PhD was in, don't you?

You just can't help yourself can you. Nothing of substance again.

Nope, I can't. It is just too funny. You resemble a little sect with a singularly unimpressive guru.

As to posts of "substance" you have had plenty of those but you tend to either sidestep them or revert to primitive Anglo-Saxon.

None of you chaps have an opinion on Obama's comments in the press today? Since the Democrats look to be in the box seat for re-election, and Hillary's views on this are not markedly different, it's not exactly helpful to your cause.

[Bluebarge]

Cheese Mechanic said:

Thats it, play the man, not the message. Those with their snouts in the eU trough are getting more than a little worried.

In my experience, the quality of the message is often influenced in large part by the quality of the messenger.

[FiF]

Bluebarge said:

Nope, I can't. It is just too funny. You resemble a little sect with a singularly unimpressive guru.

As to posts of "substance" you have had plenty of those but you tend to either sidestep them or revert to primitive Anglo-Saxon.

None of you chaps have an opinion on Obama's comments in the press today? Since the Democrats look to be in the box seat for re-election, and Hillary's views on this are not markedly different, it's not exactly helpful to your cause.

Now there's a post that really doesn't make sense. There really have been numerous expressions and analyses of how to accomplish reform or Brexit besides the one from him. Flexcit is one that combines his earlier Brexit effort with areas that he had earlier missed typically from the Bruges group.

As for tending to Anglo Saxon. One post not aimed at any individual, a tendency is it? Whatever.

Obama, now his words can be interpreted two ways. Either he sees Britain in the Eu as providing some sort of controlling stabilising influence. Or he sees that Britain willing to leave the EU is the signal of a possible isolationist attitude which could weaken USA : UK relationship which he sees as important. Seeing as you asked.

[Cheese Mechanic]

Bluebarge said:

Cheese Mechanic said:

Thats it, play the man, not the message. Those with their snouts in the eU trough are getting more than a little worried.

In my experience, the quality of the message is often influenced in large part by the quality of the messenger.

More of the same. No answer to the message, attack the messenger.

[anonymous-user]

Cheese Mechanic said:

Thats it, play the man, not the message. Those with their snouts in the eU trough are getting more than a little worried.

Yes because no-one on the anti-eu side has ever played the man not the message....

s2art said:

Thats an Obama official, and thats the Grauniad. I wouldnt give it any credence at all.

[Foppo]

Obama just says what has been wrote down for him.The U.S is making or forcing some big trade deals with the E.U.

Maybe the U.K leaving would upset the applecake.What business is it of the U.S.A. in or out the E.U regarding the U.K.anyway?

[s2art]

Foppo said:

Obama just says what has been wrote down for him.The U.S is making or forcing some big trade deals with the E.U.

Maybe the U.K leaving would upset the applecake.What business is it of the U.S.A. in or out the E.U regarding the U.K.anyway?

Well, the Yanks see us as their trojan horse in the Eu, able to influence decisions for them. I dont think its true anymore as the amount of influence we have has diminished over time,as the EU expanded, and took a big hit when the Eurozone started.

[Cheese Mechanic]

cookie118 said:

Cheese Mechanic said:

Thats it, play the man, not the message. Those with their snouts in the eU trough are getting more than a little worried.

Yes because no-one on the anti-eu side has ever played the man not the message....

s2art said:

Thats an Obama official, and thats the Grauniad. I wouldnt give it any credence at all.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Having said that, Obama's comments are the US state department, he himself is not a fan of the UK.

As emphasised here: http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/593487/Ukip...

As for the EU troughers, well, they have it all to lose. Thats what parasites are. They will try to ensure the gravy train endures, whatever it takes.

Edited by Cheese Mechanic on Friday 24th July 18:42

[FiF]

s2art said:

Foppo said:

Obama just says what has been wrote down for him.The U.S is making or forcing some big trade deals with the E.U.

Maybe the U.K leaving would upset the applecake.What business is it of the U.S.A. in or out the E.U regarding the U.K.anyway?

Well, the Yanks see us as their trojan horse in the Eu, able to influence decisions for them. I dont think its true anymore as the amount of influence we have has diminished over time,as the EU expanded, and took a big hit when the Eurozone started.

Anything Obama or Clinton says is with the overall agenda of what's best for the USA. That's what they should be doing of course. Naturally what's best for the USA may or may not be what's best for the UK or the EU.

[anonymous-user]

Bluebarge said:

FiF said:

Bluebarge said:

Love the way you all call him "Dr North" as if that adds some gravitas to his views. You do know what his PhD was in, don't you?

You just can't help yourself can you. Nothing of substance again.

Nope, I can't. It is just too funny. You resemble a little sect with a singularly unimpressive guru.

As to posts of "substance" you have had plenty of those but you tend to either sidestep them or revert to primitive Anglo-Saxon.

None of you chaps have an opinion on Obama's comments in the press today? Since the Democrats look to be in the box seat for re-election, and Hillary's views on this are not markedly different, it's not exactly helpful to your cause.

The biggest surprise for me was that Obama actually knew the EU existed.

Tell me why we should be influenced by the president who has presided over one of the worst periods for the US economy, has failed to get any of his significant programmes past and has been singularly unimpressive during both if his terms.

[steveT350C]

'THE gulf in attitudes between Europe and Britain towards financial regulation and personal investors is one that's difficult to bridge'

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/588009/Richa...

[anonymous-user]

Cheese Mechanic said:

Two wrongs do not make a right. Having said that, Obama's comments are the US state department, he himself is not a fan of the UK.

As emphasised here: http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/593487/Ukip...

As for the EU troughers, well, they have it all to lose. Thats what parasites are. They will try to ensure the gravy train endures, whatever it takes.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 24th July 18:42

But this goes on constantly in these threads:

Anti-Brexit person posts a link from the Guardian/Independant/other none-right leaning website or even official NHS stats that diagree with Brexit and they are not to be trusted/wrong/making stuff up
Pro-Brexit person posts up link from Breitbart/Mail/right leaning blogger and it's just fact and trusted.

Businessperson comes out against Brexit and they are looking after their own interests, they'll be gone when it suits them, they said the same thing about the Euro etc
Businessperson comes out for Brexit and they're praised for speaking out-you don't think they're acting in their own interests and will be gone when it suits them too??

Whenever someone points out the negatives of leaving the EU it's 'scaremongering'
Pro-brexit person: IMMIGRANTS, TROUGHERS TAKING OUR MONEY, EU ARMY!!!

[JensenA]

Because Generally, right leaning people are a bit more realistic, and factual than the left wing dreamers. Just look at Syriza. "vote for us and we will end austerity". Once in power they hold a referendum, "Vote 'No', we oppose Austerity".The Greek people believed them, Syriza got the result they wanted. And then what happened?

[anonymous-user]

JensenA said:

Because Generally, right leaning people are a bit more realistic, and factual than the left wing dreamers. Just look at Syriza. "vote for us and we will end austerity". Once in power they hold a referendum, "Vote 'No', we oppose Austerity".The Greek people believed them, Syriza got the result they wanted. And then what happened?

It's nothing of the sort-it's the fact that 'it's an Obama offical and the Guardian' is enough to dismiss a pro-EU argument while a Eurosceptic blog written by a eurosceptic journalist who's written a Eurosceptic book is presented as fact and a presentable anti-EU argument.

[s2art]

cookie118 said:

It's nothing of the sort-it's the fact that 'it's an Obama offical and the Guardian' is enough to dismiss a pro-EU argument while a Eurosceptic blog written by a eurosceptic journalist who's written a Eurosceptic book is presented as fact and a presentable anti-EU argument.

Wrong. Obama is already known to want the UK in the EU, and his State department will, perforce, reflect his view. That has little bearing on what the rest of the US thinks, what do you think the Senate or the US military think? As for the Grauniad, that rag nailed its colours to the politically correct, feminist, global warming etc etc mast a long time ago. Its worse than the Daily mail. (and thats saying something)

[anonymous-user]

s2art said:

Wrong. Obama is already known to want the UK in the EU, and his State department will, perforce, reflect his view. That has little bearing on what the rest of the US thinks, what do you think the Senate or the US military think? As for the Grauniad, that rag nailed its colours to the politically correct, feminist, global warming etc etc mast a long time ago. Its worse than the Daily mail. (and thats saying something)

But why should what the POTUS says be of no relevance when a Eurosceptic blog is relevant?

[s2art]

cookie118 said:

s2art said:

Wrong. Obama is already known to want the UK in the EU, and his State department will, perforce, reflect his view. That has little bearing on what the rest of the US thinks, what do you think the Senate or the US military think? As for the Grauniad, that rag nailed its colours to the politically correct, feminist, global warming etc etc mast a long time ago. Its worse than the Daily mail. (and thats saying something)

But why should what the POTUS says be of no relevance when a Eurosceptic blog is relevant?

Because the Eurosceptic blog attempted to outline the actual facts and advantages or disadvantages to the UK, but Obama will only be considering what might be best for the US, not the UK. And his opinion will become increasingly irrelevant as his period in office comes to a close.

[turbobloke]

s2art said:

cookie118 said:

s2art said:

Wrong. Obama is already known to want the UK in the EU, and his State department will, perforce, reflect his view. That has little bearing on what the rest of the US thinks, what do you think the Senate or the US military think? As for the Grauniad, that rag nailed its colours to the politically correct, feminist, global warming etc etc mast a long time ago. Its worse than the Daily mail. (and thats saying something)

But why should what the POTUS says be of no relevance when a Eurosceptic blog is relevant?

Because the Eurosceptic blog attempted to outline the actual facts and advantages or disadvantages to the UK, but Obama will only be considering what might be best for the US, not the UK. And his opinion will become increasingly irrelevant as his period in office comes to a close.

Agreed.

At least by not considering what might be best for the UK, Obama was following the lead of the EU in how it treats nation states particularly those with a working mind of their own.