The 'No to the EU' campaign

[anonymous-user]

s2art said:

Because the Eurosceptic blog attempted to outline the actual facts and advantages or disadvantages to the UK, but Obama will only be considering what might be best for the US, not the UK. And his opinion will become increasingly irrelevant as his period in office comes to a close.

Of course he's thinkng in the best interests of the US-that's his job as it would be for any president!! However he makes the point that there would be no trade agreement with the UK outside of the EU. Is it in the UK's interests to have a trade agreement with the US?

The Brexit crew seem to think so-they make it sound like we'd be signing FTA's left right and centre after leaving the EU but the Obama admininstration says this won't happen with the US-so it's important to listen to that point for sure!

Also maybe the Eurosceptic journalist is only writing what is best for his blog views/book sales, not what's best for the country??

[turbobloke]

cookie118 said:

s2art said:

Because the Eurosceptic blog attempted to outline the actual facts and advantages or disadvantages to the UK, but Obama will only be considering what might be best for the US, not the UK. And his opinion will become increasingly irrelevant as his period in office comes to a close.

Of course he's thinkng in the best interests of the US-that's his job as it would be for any president!! However he makes the point that there would be no trade agreement with the UK outside of the EU. Is it in the UK's interests to have a trade agreement with the US?

The Brexit crew seem to think so-they make it sound like we'd be signing FTA's left right and centre after leaving the EU but the Obama admininstration says this won't happen with the US-so it's important to listen to that point for sure!

Also maybe the Eurosceptic journalist is only writing what is best for his blog views/book sales, not what's best for the country??

Possibly, but less likely - this is Obama so not worth a dime.

[FiF]

turbobloke said:

cookie118 said:

s2art said:

Because the Eurosceptic blog attempted to outline the actual facts and advantages or disadvantages to the UK, but Obama will only be considering what might be best for the US, not the UK. And his opinion will become increasingly irrelevant as his period in office comes to a close.

Of course he's thinkng in the best interests of the US-that's his job as it would be for any president!! However he makes the point that there would be no trade agreement with the UK outside of the EU. Is it in the UK's interests to have a trade agreement with the US?

The Brexit crew seem to think so-they make it sound like we'd be signing FTA's left right and centre after leaving the EU but the Obama admininstration says this won't happen with the US-so it's important to listen to that point for sure!

Also maybe the Eurosceptic journalist is only writing what is best for his blog views/book sales, not what's best for the country??

Possibly, but less likely - this is Obama so not worth a dime.

Points above in bold. Did he say that? Links please. Certainly not in the recent BBC interview.

[steveT350C]

Referendum June '16

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-r...

[anonymous-user]

FiF said:

turbobloke said:

cookie118 said:

s2art said:

Because the Eurosceptic blog attempted to outline the actual facts and advantages or disadvantages to the UK, but Obama will only be considering what might be best for the US, not the UK. And his opinion will become increasingly irrelevant as his period in office comes to a close.

Of course he's thinkng in the best interests of the US-that's his job as it would be for any president!! However he makes the point that there would be no trade agreement with the UK outside of the EU. Is it in the UK's interests to have a trade agreement with the US?

The Brexit crew seem to think so-they make it sound like we'd be signing FTA's left right and centre after leaving the EU but the Obama admininstration says this won't happen with the US-so it's important to listen to that point for sure!

Also maybe the Eurosceptic journalist is only writing what is best for his blog views/book sales, not what's best for the country??

Possibly, but less likely - this is Obama so not worth a dime.

Points above in bold. Did he say that? Links please. Certainly not in the recent BBC interview.

It should have been obama administration on both points but it was two pages ago.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/may/27/eu...

Do you have any evidence of countries definitely wanting a trade deal with the UK outside of the EU?? Links please.

[steveT350C]

If we voted to stay in, we will adopt the Euro.

'Why the UK must never join the euro'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11761...

[FiF]

cookie118 said:

FiF said:

turbobloke said:

cookie118 said:

s2art said:

Because the Eurosceptic blog attempted to outline the actual facts and advantages or disadvantages to the UK, but Obama will only be considering what might be best for the US, not the UK. And his opinion will become increasingly irrelevant as his period in office comes to a close.

Of course he's thinkng in the best interests of the US-that's his job as it would be for any president!! However he makes the point that there would be no trade agreement with the UK outside of the EU. Is it in the UK's interests to have a trade agreement with the US?

The Brexit crew seem to think so-they make it sound like we'd be signing FTA's left right and centre after leaving the EU but the Obama admininstration says this won't happen with the US-so it's important to listen to that point for sure!

Also maybe the Eurosceptic journalist is only writing what is best for his blog views/book sales, not what's best for the country??

Possibly, but less likely - this is Obama so not worth a dime.

Points above in bold. Did he say that? Links please. Certainly not in the recent BBC interview.

It should have been obama administration on both points but it was two pages ago.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/may/27/eu...

Do you have any evidence of countries definitely wanting a trade deal with the UK outside of the EU?? Links please.

Thanks, I was just asking where he had said it, as read the full transcript of the BBC interview and there was no mention.

Suggest you look in gov.uk. HTH

[davepoth]

cookie118 said:

Do you have any evidence of countries definitely wanting a trade deal with the UK outside of the EU?? Links please.

There isn't any evidence because the option hasn't been on the table for 40 years. But globally speaking the trend has been towards free trade deals in increasing number and scope.

It would be very surprising if we couldn't agree deals with a number of major markets within a decade of leaving the EU, and possibly more quickly than that - the UK's long term attitude towards allowing foreign companies access to the UK economy means that we could conclude a deal faster than if the French are involved.

Obama's intervention is welcome though - the big problem with a referendum (it certainly was the case with the Scottish one) is that people tend to stay on the fence to avoid upsetting whichever side eventually wins. At least we know what the US is thinking; and don't for a second imagine that Obama has set the direction of the state department with this. Washington has long wanted a Europe that speaks with a single voice, and it really doesn't want that single voice to say "Nein" to it a lot.

[steveT350C]

UK 5th largest economy on planet

People think countries won't trade with UK if UK not in EU.....

[RYH64E]

steveT350C said:

UK 5th largest economy on planet

People think countries won't trade with UK if UK not in EU.....

Nobody is suggesting countries won't trade with the UK, the question is what the terms of such trade would be. At present there are no duties, tariffs, customs or quotas, which makes intra EU trade as straight forward as intra UK trade.

[steveT350C]

RYH64E said:

steveT350C said:

UK 5th largest economy on planet

People think countries won't trade with UK if UK not in EU.....

Nobody is suggesting countries won't trade with the UK, the question is what the terms of such trade would be. At present there are no duties, tariffs, customs or quotas, which makes intra EU trade as straight forward as intra UK trade.

Scary isn't it!

[RYH64E]

steveT350C said:

Scary isn't it!

The current situation is very profitable for those of us who choose to take advantage of it. Competing on even terms with French, Italian, Spanish etc manufacturers in their own markets is like shooting fish in a barrel, and long may it continue.

[anonymous-user]

RYH64E said:

steveT350C said:

UK 5th largest economy on planet

People think countries won't trade with UK if UK not in EU.....

Nobody is suggesting countries won't trade with the UK, the question is what the terms of such trade would be. At present there are no duties, tariffs, customs or quotas, which makes intra EU trade as straight forward as intra UK trade.

They'd be whatever would be negotiated. No reason why they couldn't or wouldn't be at least as beneficial to us as our current arrangements within the EU. In fact it's hard to see how they could be less so.

[s2art]

RYH64E said:

Nobody is suggesting countries won't trade with the UK, the question is what the terms of such trade would be. At present there are no duties, tariffs, customs or quotas, which makes intra EU trade as straight forward as intra UK trade.

Given our trade imbalance with Germany in particular, I expect little change.

[Funkycoldribena]

RYH64E said:

The current situation is very profitable for those of us who choose to take advantage of it. Competing on even terms with French, Italian, Spanish etc manufacturers in their own markets is like shooting fish in a barrel, and long may it continue.

Hopefully only another year,Jack.

[RYH64E]

If we've learned anything from the ongoing situation in Greece it's that any response to a proposed Brexit will be based on politics not economics. If the EU decides that they can't afford to lose the UK then they'll give us a good deal. Alternatively, if they conclude that allowing the UK to remain members, keeping all of the trade advantages with none of the costs, might encourage others to seek the same, then they'll give us nothing. They haven't been exactly charitable in their dealings with Greece.

Forget economics, think politics.

[davepoth]

RYH64E said:

If we've learned anything from the ongoing situation in Greece it's that any response to a proposed Brexit will be based on politics not economics. If the EU decides that they can't afford to lose the UK then they'll give us a good deal. Alternatively, if they conclude that allowing the UK to remain members, keeping all of the trade advantages with none of the costs, might encourage others to seek the same, then they'll give us nothing. They haven't been exactly charitable in their dealings with Greece.

Forget economics, think politics.

Ah, but but behind the politics is economics again. Germany needs Greece in the Euro (and a basket case in the Euro) to keep its trade surplus from causing the Euro to appreciate.

[mph1977]

RYH64E said:

steveT350C said:

UK 5th largest economy on planet

People think countries won't trade with UK if UK not in EU.....

Nobody is suggesting countries won't trade with the UK, the question is what the terms of such trade would be. At present there are no duties, tariffs, customs or quotas, which makes intra EU trade as straight forward as intra UK trade.

and would we remain the 5th largest economy if we aren;t in the EU for various reasons to do with regualtions in the finance sector, leavign aside the imposition ofthe standard WTO tarriffs on our exports ( import tarriff is by the by as ther arseperationals will still buy Audis and BMWs anyway)

[Murph7355]

RYH64E said:

If we've learned anything from the ongoing situation in Greece it's that any response to a proposed Brexit will be based on politics not economics. If the EU decides that they can't afford to lose the UK then they'll give us a good deal. Alternatively, if they conclude that allowing the UK to remain members, keeping all of the trade advantages with none of the costs, might encourage others to seek the same, then they'll give us nothing. They haven't been exactly charitable in their dealings with Greece.

Forget economics, think politics.

The two positions are entirely different.

There are other weak economies in the EU that might well follow Greece's lead if Greece told the EU to stick it (though typically they have not as yet).

Are there other strong (relatively) economies with a balance of trade in favour of the remaining EU Countries?

I don't believe Germany would allow any pyrrhic responses to us democratically wanting to leave. And assuming they don't want to totally shatter their (and the French's) EU experiment, that will mean a sensible approach for trade with anyone in the EU circle.

[AJS-]

I can't really think of many worse reasons to stay in the EU than a fear o spiteful reprisals if we leave. It's like advising a beaten wife not to leave her husband as leaving will anger him.