The 'No to the EU' campaign
Discussion
FiF said:
The thing that depresses me about that article is the presence of Farage and the immigration message. It's suspected that a significant effect of the concentration on immigration caused the UKIP support to plateau, and it's possible that they may have a similar effect on the referendum campaign if they harp on about this.
The other thing which has only an element of truth is the belief about EU meddling, true, but also the belief that exit will mean a bonfire of regulations. It won't.
True we will be able in part have regulations which suit us, but many regulations these days some from super national regulatory bodies eg UNECE. We have no voice on these, no real prior view of what is coming, and just have to accept what is handed down verbatim via the EU. In this sense the EU is just an extra layer in the accountability trace and frankly an expensive and unwieldy unwanted layer.
Not so sure on the immigration point, if its handled carefully it could be a big plus for the exit campaign, surely this is one area that the EU should have control on, but is showing itself to be inadequate, the open borders policies are allowing iligal immigrants to move around as they like once inside the EU.The other thing which has only an element of truth is the belief about EU meddling, true, but also the belief that exit will mean a bonfire of regulations. It won't.
True we will be able in part have regulations which suit us, but many regulations these days some from super national regulatory bodies eg UNECE. We have no voice on these, no real prior view of what is coming, and just have to accept what is handed down verbatim via the EU. In this sense the EU is just an extra layer in the accountability trace and frankly an expensive and unwieldy unwanted layer.
Tory, Henry Smith MP: I Will Vote to Leave the EU
http://getbritainout.org/henry-smith-mp-i-will-vot...
http://getbritainout.org/henry-smith-mp-i-will-vot...
steveT350C said:
Tory, Henry Smith MP: I Will Vote to Leave the EU
http://getbritainout.org/henry-smith-mp-i-will-vot...
His voting record on EU related matters is ok, not fantastic.http://getbritainout.org/henry-smith-mp-i-will-vot...
Recently he voted against applying purdah to the EU debate. I wonder why, maybe I'll email him.
Edit: I have emailed him to ask why. I will post any reply.
Edited by Esseesse on Thursday 30th July 14:49
FiF said:
The thing that depresses me about that article is the presence of Farage and the immigration message. It's suspected that a significant effect of the concentration on immigration caused the UKIP support to plateau, and it's possible that they may have a similar effect on the referendum campaign if they harp on about this.
The other thing which has only an element of truth is the belief about EU meddling, true, but also the belief that exit will mean a bonfire of regulations. It won't.
True we will be able in part have regulations which suit us, but many regulations these days some from super national regulatory bodies eg UNECE. We have no voice on these, no real prior view of what is coming, and just have to accept what is handed down verbatim via the EU. In this sense the EU is just an extra layer in the accountability trace and frankly an expensive and unwieldy unwanted layer.
Cap X had an article this week saying exactly that - Farage's best thing to do now is just keep his mouth shut until the referendum.The other thing which has only an element of truth is the belief about EU meddling, true, but also the belief that exit will mean a bonfire of regulations. It won't.
True we will be able in part have regulations which suit us, but many regulations these days some from super national regulatory bodies eg UNECE. We have no voice on these, no real prior view of what is coming, and just have to accept what is handed down verbatim via the EU. In this sense the EU is just an extra layer in the accountability trace and frankly an expensive and unwieldy unwanted layer.
99% of what he says I agree with, but he is toxic to too many now.
Art0ir said:
Cap X had an article this week saying exactly that - Farage's best thing to do now is just keep his mouth shut until the referendum.
99% of what he says I agree with, but he is toxic to too many now.
problem with that approach is nobody else is picking up the baton and running with it.99% of what he says I agree with, but he is toxic to too many now.
I listened to him on Today (R4) and the impression I got was he was getting frustrated that non of the so called EU sceptics were saying anything...
If he does not speak out, exactly who will?
I think the best that can happen is that he does step up and take the lead, and show not only the arguments, but who is there to genuinely lead this country out of the EU.
Scuffers said:
Art0ir said:
Cap X had an article this week saying exactly that - Farage's best thing to do now is just keep his mouth shut until the referendum.
99% of what he says I agree with, but he is toxic to too many now.
problem with that approach is nobody else is picking up the baton and running with it.99% of what he says I agree with, but he is toxic to too many now.
I listened to him on Today (R4) and the impression I got was he was getting frustrated that non of the so called EU sceptics were saying anything...
If he does not speak out, exactly who will?
I think the best that can happen is that he does step up and take the lead, and show not only the arguments, but who is there to genuinely lead this country out of the EU.
However the key issue is that in theory a renegotiation is underway and the real debate will be over whatever renegotiated terms are on offer. Until then any issue raised will probably get batted back with we're negotiating on that.
The other issue is the moves to have a two speed Europe or inner and outer circles of members. Euro zone and the rest.
That isn't going to happen until probably after our next GE so any vote on that or a treaty change to accommodate any supposed negotiated reform is going to be on the basis of the EU keeping its promises.
So at the moment the No campaign hasn't got much to campaign against and is probably better spending time on getting info together for an accurate and well founded in fact rebuttal campaign plus really getting a consistent coordinated plan for Brexit and the future.
To my mind Farage banging about immigration and migrants is simply more of the same old stuff and won't win many friends.
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2015/7/31/e...
Ever wondered why NGOs support EU membership?
Wonder no more...
Ever wondered why NGOs support EU membership?
Wonder no more...
FiF said:
The problem that the No campaign faces is similar to the position in the 70s. Currently they can only make a case against the EU as it is now. Which frankly is easy as it's such a mess.
However the key issue is that in theory a renegotiation is underway and the real debate will be over whatever renegotiated terms are on offer. Until then any issue raised will probably get batted back with we're negotiating on that.
The other issue is the moves to have a two speed Europe or inner and outer circles of members. Euro zone and the rest.
That isn't going to happen until probably after our next GE so any vote on that or a treaty change to accommodate any supposed negotiated reform is going to be on the basis of the EU keeping its promises.
So at the moment the No campaign hasn't got much to campaign against and is probably better spending time on getting info together for an accurate and well founded in fact rebuttal campaign plus really getting a consistent coordinated plan for Brexit and the future.
To my mind Farage banging about immigration and migrants is simply more of the same old stuff and won't win many friends.
Sorry but the cynic in me says CMD will say everything has changed when nothing has, then later tell us we had a vote and accepted itHowever the key issue is that in theory a renegotiation is underway and the real debate will be over whatever renegotiated terms are on offer. Until then any issue raised will probably get batted back with we're negotiating on that.
The other issue is the moves to have a two speed Europe or inner and outer circles of members. Euro zone and the rest.
That isn't going to happen until probably after our next GE so any vote on that or a treaty change to accommodate any supposed negotiated reform is going to be on the basis of the EU keeping its promises.
So at the moment the No campaign hasn't got much to campaign against and is probably better spending time on getting info together for an accurate and well founded in fact rebuttal campaign plus really getting a consistent coordinated plan for Brexit and the future.
To my mind Farage banging about immigration and migrants is simply more of the same old stuff and won't win many friends.
voyds9 said:
Sorry but the cynic in me says CMD will say everything has changed when nothing has, then later tell us we had a vote and accepted it
I think that's exactly what will happen.Unfortunately fear, misinformation and inertia will probably result in a vote to stay in.
Getting a referendum under a Conservative majority government led by Cameron was really not much of a victory at all. I'm considering the referendum the start rather than the end of a push for EU withdrawal. It will air a lot of issues and force a lot of people to pick a side, but without some major changes between now and then it will be a walk over for the thinly disguised No Change At All side.
I suppose one option might be that we `all' vote no in the upcoming referendum, and then see how many more referenda are used after that to ensure we reach the `correct??? answer.
At least a majority voting no in the first referendum might wake up CMD, as to how the country actually feels, about this issue.
Up till now I have been a border line (sorry for the pun) yes voter, but following the fiasco at Calais, and Camerons weak responses to it, I could be drifting towards the no vote.
Interesting times lay ahead.
At least a majority voting no in the first referendum might wake up CMD, as to how the country actually feels, about this issue.
Up till now I have been a border line (sorry for the pun) yes voter, but following the fiasco at Calais, and Camerons weak responses to it, I could be drifting towards the no vote.
Interesting times lay ahead.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Up till now I have been a border line (sorry for the pun) yes voter, but following the fiasco at Calais, and Camerons weak responses to it, I could be drifting towards the no vote.
How exactly do you think a No to the EU vote would help the UK deal with the situation at Calais? Worse case for the UK would be for France to move the border control point from Calais to Dover, then we'd have a load of non-EU citizens on UK soil claiming asylum. Without nominal support from France and Holland we'd have a much more difficult situation to deal with.
RYH64E said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Up till now I have been a border line (sorry for the pun) yes voter, but following the fiasco at Calais, and Camerons weak responses to it, I could be drifting towards the no vote.
How exactly do you think a No to the EU vote would help the UK deal with the situation at Calais? Worse case for the UK would be for France to move the border control point from Calais to Dover, then we'd have a load of non-EU citizens on UK soil claiming asylum. Without nominal support from France and Holland we'd have a much more difficult situation to deal with.
The parties to the Treaty of Le Touquet are the UK, France and Belgium. Nothing to do with Holland.
Mrr T said:
RYH64E said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Up till now I have been a border line (sorry for the pun) yes voter, but following the fiasco at Calais, and Camerons weak responses to it, I could be drifting towards the no vote.
How exactly do you think a No to the EU vote would help the UK deal with the situation at Calais? Worse case for the UK would be for France to move the border control point from Calais to Dover, then we'd have a load of non-EU citizens on UK soil claiming asylum. Without nominal support from France and Holland we'd have a much more difficult situation to deal with.
EU states are effectively washing their hands of this, or sitting on them.
turbobloke said:
It has nothing to do with the EU in the bizarre sense that most other EU/EZ economies are on their arse so people cross the med to come to the UK where our economy is on its feet and growing fast; it has something to do with the EU since those non-EU migrants are allowed to pass through several EU states before they reach Calais in their attempt to get across to the UK, including Italy, Greece and others.
EU states are effectively washing their hands of this, or sitting on them.
So your point is that leaving the EU would help because it would lead to our economy being on it's arse as well? So we'd be a less attractive destination for immigrants?EU states are effectively washing their hands of this, or sitting on them.
Mrr T said:
turbobloke said:
EU states are effectively washing their hands of this, or sitting on them.
That is correct. However, as I say the problem is nothing to do with our membership of the EU.the bit by the time they get to Calais is very much the arse end of the problem, the root is a thousands of miles away.
I would also argue that not being part of the EU free movement would mean we would also have proper border controls.
Mrr T said:
turbobloke said:
EU states are effectively washing their hands of this, or sitting on them.
That is correct. However, as I say the problem is nothing to do with our membership of the EU.It's different to what you said previously, i.e. what I was replying to.
Mrr T said:
the mess in Calais is nothing to do with the EU
That says nothing about our membership of the EU - goalpost shift!Clearly it's an EU problem which our fellow travellers, the EU authorities and notably France have hitherto been happy to see land on our doorstep. The closeness in the Union has been heartwarming: ever closer!
Ever b
x more like, what we need is never closer union.We need the costly supranational bloat of the failed EU project like we need the plague.
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