The 'No to the EU' campaign

[AJS-]

The perception that Britain alone is taking in migrants is false. Spain, Italy and Greece have thousands. France has, at the very least a shanty town in Calais and might just as rightfully complain that our lax immigration policy is putting an undue strain on their resources. The Nordics generally have more immigrants as a percentage of population.

The Calais crisis isn't directly caused by the EU, though the joint effort to ship them across the Mediterranean doesn't help. However, it is a prime example of the EU utterly failing to tackle exactly the sort of cross border regional problem that it's fans claim we need it for. Instead it's turned into this grubby game of trying to pass them off onto our "partners" while claiming some moral high ground.

At the very least, outside the EU we could design and implement a totally autonomous immigration policy and border controls to match.

[Scuffers]

AJS- said:

The perception that Britain alone is taking in migrants is false.

kind of a pointless argument.

France, spain, Germany, etc are all massive countries compared to the UK, with vastly lower populations (relative to area)

[turbobloke]

AJS- said:

The perception that Britain alone is taking in migrants is false.

I can't recall anyone claiming that Britain is alone in taking in migrants.

Whodunnit?!

[AJS-]

Most of the countries they come from will have far lower population density than France anyway. It's a question of what's there. They seem to see the UK as a land of opportunity where illegal immigration is not a serious matter.

[Esseesse]

Scuffers said:

AJS- said:

The perception that Britain alone is taking in migrants is false.

kind of a pointless argument.

France, spain, Germany, etc are all massive countries compared to the UK, with vastly lower populations (relative to area)

Indeed, plus I don't live in France, Spain or Germany...

[Dave_lotus]

So suppose we left the EU.

That wouldn't stop wanting immigrants getting to the EU across the med etc obviously
Nor would it stop immigrants wanting to get to the UK (unless of course leaving the EU turned out to be a big disaster for the UK, which I assume is not an argument the Kippers are advancing)
And with us out of the EU, France would not be bound to try and stop the immigrants at there end

So we would have a bigger problem, with no access to try and stop this at the French end.

And the EU as a whole is already taking more immigrants per head of population than us.

So remind me again, why is this an EU problem?

[turbobloke]

Dave_lotus said:

So suppose we left the EU.

That wouldn't stop wanting immigrants getting to the EU across the med etc obviously
Nor would it stop immigrants wanting to get to the UK (unless of course leaving the EU turned out to be a big disaster for the UK, which I assume is not an argument the Kippers are advancing)
And with us out of the EU, France would not be bound to try and stop the immigrants at there end

So we would have a bigger problem, with no access to try and stop this at the French end.

And the EU as a whole is already taking more immigrants per head of population than us.

So remind me again, why is this an EU problem?

Because many migrants pass through several EU countries whuch look the other way knowing the large part of the problem will end up with the UK.

A lot more could and should be done long before these people reach Calais.

Whatever the future may hold, that's the present position.

[Esseesse]

Dave_lotus said:

And with us out of the EU, France would not be bound to try and stop the immigrants at there end

So we would have a bigger problem, with no access to try and stop this at the French end.

Why would France not try to stop illegal immigrants at their end (and actually what really are they doing now, allowing them to set up camps near Calais)?

Why would we not maintain the UK border on the French side? Do you really think the French would want to fall out with us? I think not.

If they did then we'd better just check everything on this side, load up a RN ferry and take them back to France.

[mph1977]

turbobloke said:

Dave_lotus said:

So suppose we left the EU.

That wouldn't stop wanting immigrants getting to the EU across the med etc obviously
Nor would it stop immigrants wanting to get to the UK (unless of course leaving the EU turned out to be a big disaster for the UK, which I assume is not an argument the Kippers are advancing)
And with us out of the EU, France would not be bound to try and stop the immigrants at there end

So we would have a bigger problem, with no access to try and stop this at the French end.

And the EU as a whole is already taking more immigrants per head of population than us.

So remind me again, why is this an EU problem?

Because many migrants pass through several EU countries whuch look the other way knowing the large part of the problem will end up with the UK.

A lot more could and should be done long before these people reach Calais.

Whatever the future may hold, that's the present position.

the turning the otherway thing is the issue , as international law / regulations suggest that asylum claims should be filed in the first safe state , not in the state of your choosing

[turbobloke]

mph1977 said:

turbobloke said:

Dave_lotus said:

So suppose we left the EU.

That wouldn't stop wanting immigrants getting to the EU across the med etc obviously
Nor would it stop immigrants wanting to get to the UK (unless of course leaving the EU turned out to be a big disaster for the UK, which I assume is not an argument the Kippers are advancing)
And with us out of the EU, France would not be bound to try and stop the immigrants at there end

So we would have a bigger problem, with no access to try and stop this at the French end.

And the EU as a whole is already taking more immigrants per head of population than us.

So remind me again, why is this an EU problem?

Because many migrants pass through several EU countries which look the other way knowing the large part of the problem will end up with the UK.

A lot more could and should be done long before these people reach Calais.

Whatever the future may hold, that's the present position.

the turning the otherway thing is the issue , as international law / regulations suggest that asylum claims should be filed in the first safe state , not in the state of your choosing

Given that this occurs in EU countries it's an EU problem.

[Dave_lotus]

turbobloke said:

mph1977 said:

turbobloke said:

Dave_lotus said:

So suppose we left the EU.

That wouldn't stop wanting immigrants getting to the EU across the med etc obviously
Nor would it stop immigrants wanting to get to the UK (unless of course leaving the EU turned out to be a big disaster for the UK, which I assume is not an argument the Kippers are advancing)
And with us out of the EU, France would not be bound to try and stop the immigrants at there end

So we would have a bigger problem, with no access to try and stop this at the French end.

And the EU as a whole is already taking more immigrants per head of population than us.

So remind me again, why is this an EU problem?

Because many migrants pass through several EU countries which look the other way knowing the large part of the problem will end up with the UK.

A lot more could and should be done long before these people reach Calais.

Whatever the future may hold, that's the present position.

the turning the otherway thing is the issue , as international law / regulations suggest that asylum claims should be filed in the first safe state , not in the state of your choosing

Given that this occurs in EU countries it's an EU problem.

Which leaving the EU would do nothing to resolve

And its a problem of countries in the EU, not the EU as an institution. Very different thing. Otherwise you make everything in the UK an EU problem. Which whilst I know Kippers want to blame everything on the EU, is just wrong

[turbobloke]

Dave_lotus said:

turbobloke said:

mph1977 said:

turbobloke said:

Dave_lotus said:

So suppose we left the EU.

That wouldn't stop wanting immigrants getting to the EU across the med etc obviously
Nor would it stop immigrants wanting to get to the UK (unless of course leaving the EU turned out to be a big disaster for the UK, which I assume is not an argument the Kippers are advancing)
And with us out of the EU, France would not be bound to try and stop the immigrants at there end

So we would have a bigger problem, with no access to try and stop this at the French end.

And the EU as a whole is already taking more immigrants per head of population than us.

So remind me again, why is this an EU problem?

Because many migrants pass through several EU countries which look the other way knowing the large part of the problem will end up with the UK.

A lot more could and should be done long before these people reach Calais.

Whatever the future may hold, that's the present position.

the turning the otherway thing is the issue , as international law / regulations suggest that asylum claims should be filed in the first safe state , not in the state of your choosing

Given that this occurs in EU countries it's an EU problem.

Which leaving the EU would do nothing to resolve

Irrelevant! I answered the question and the above reply is in relation to a different question.

Dave_lotus said:

And its a problem of countries in the EU, not the EU as an institution. Very different thing. Otherwise you make everything in the UK an EU problem. Which whilst I know Kippers want to blame everything on the EU, is just wrong

As I'm not a kipper I can't comment further on your false generalisation than this sentence.

In terms of the EU, it is an EU problem. Have you heard of the Common European Asylum System? Way back between 1999 and 2005, several legislative measures harmonising common minimum standards for asylum were adopted.

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/po...

Try this relating to migrants on top of the above:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri...

The fact that the EU has the inertia of a sloth and the competence of a dullard is hardly the UK's fault.

[treepke]

Dave_lotus said:

Which leaving the EU would do nothing to resolve

And its a problem of countries in the EU, not the EU as an institution. Very different thing. Otherwise you make everything in the UK an EU problem. Which whilst I know Kippers want to blame everything on the EU, is just wrong

You must have a good internet signal on Jura Dave.... any room for a few illegal immigrants at the in-laws?

[steveT350C]

Good read....

http://www.commonwealth-exchange.org/blog/the-uk-c...

[RYH64E]

I wonder if, somewhere in France, there's a motoring website where people are debating the Calais situation, they're probably saying things like 'Why is it our problem? If they want to get to the UK we should let them go', 'Why are we paying to police the UK's borders?', 'Why don't we just give them a passport and a one way ticket to the UK?'. I'm sure that's what we would be saying of the situation was reversed.

[turbobloke]

RYH64E said:

I wonder if, somewhere in France, there's a motoring website where people are debating the Calais situation, they're probably saying things like 'Why is it our problem? If they want to get to the UK we should let them go', 'Why are we paying to police the UK's borders?', 'Why don't we just give them a passport and a one way ticket to the UK?'...

Not only that, if it wasn't for the constraints of France's EU-EZ membership combined with electing a socialist muppet to sit at the foot of the EU high table while screwing their economy an additional cinq ways to Noël, they could be complaining about the migrants wanting to stay in France.

[RYH64E]

turbobloke said:

Not only that, if it wasn't for the constraints of France's EU-EZ membership combined with electing a socialist muppet to sit at the foot of the EU high table while screwing their economy an additional cinq ways to Noël, they could be complaining about the migrants wanting to stay in France.

More like the socialist muppets have come up with a means of not paying benefits to asylum seekers whilst still abiding by EU rules and regulations, so non-working migrants want to move to somewhere more hospitable. It says something when said socialist muppets in France are criticising the UK for having an overly generous benefits system. Surely the answer to that is in our own hands?

[turbobloke]

RYH64E said:

turbobloke said:

Not only that, if it wasn't for the constraints of France's EU-EZ membership combined with electing a socialist muppet to sit at the foot of the EU high table while screwing their economy an additional cinq ways to Noël, they could be complaining about the migrants wanting to stay in France.

More like the socialist muppets have come up with a means of not paying benefits to asylum seekers whilst still abiding by EU rules and regulations, so non-working migrants want to move to somewhere more hospitable. It says something when said socialist muppets in France are criticising the UK for having an overly generous benefits system. Surely the answer to that is in our own hands?

I still haven't got further than "whilst still abiding by EU rules and regulations" so I may reply again in more detail once I stop laughing.

[MajorProblem]

If George Osborne said he's identified billions of pounds worth of savings by not giving benefits to these sort what would happen?

What would the EZ do?

[RYH64E]

MajorProblem said:

If George Osborne said he's identified billions of pounds worth of savings by not giving benefits to these sort what would happen?

What would the EZ do?

I see no good reason why we can't align our benefits system with that of any one of the less (least) generous EU states. As I understand it, the EU only has a point of view about it if we pay less to an EU citizen who isn't from The UK than we pay to our own, indigenous benefit claimants.