The 'No to the EU' campaign
Discussion
CrutyRammers said:
Good. That will mean lots of countries with money to buy our products.
What products? Let's be honest we don't make a great deal do we? And being outside the EU raises the risk of them slapping on import tariffs if tof protect their own manufacturers if we start selling too much to them.JawKnee said:
CrutyRammers said:
Good. That will mean lots of countries with money to buy our products.
What products? Let's be honest we don't make a great deal do we? And being outside the EU raises the risk of them slapping on import tariffs if tof protect their own manufacturers if we start selling too much to them.Pure ignorance to say we don't make anything - it's a core component of our position in the G10 rankings.
///ajd said:
Presumably
AJD, which bit of the FACTS they are discussing here is incorrect:https://youtu.be/_c8jznwzVbE
Sway said:
JawKnee said:
CrutyRammers said:
Good. That will mean lots of countries with money to buy our products.
What products? Let's be honest we don't make a great deal do we? And being outside the EU raises the risk of them slapping on import tariffs if tof protect their own manufacturers if we start selling too much to them.Pure ignorance to say we don't make anything - it's a core component of our position in the G10 rankings.
Ridgemont said:
Sway said:
JawKnee said:
CrutyRammers said:
Good. That will mean lots of countries with money to buy our products.
What products? Let's be honest we don't make a great deal do we? And being outside the EU raises the risk of them slapping on import tariffs if tof protect their own manufacturers if we start selling too much to them.Pure ignorance to say we don't make anything - it's a core component of our position in the G10 rankings.
JawKnee said:
CrutyRammers said:
Good. That will mean lots of countries with money to buy our products.
What products? Let's be honest we don't make a great deal do we? And being outside the EU raises the risk of them slapping on import tariffs if tof protect their own manufacturers if we start selling too much to them.My clients buy from us because what we make is the best, in the EU or out they will still buy from me.
There are seriously some delusional people on here that have never seen beyond a desk in their lives!
Just to add we could be making ships, trains, and other great projects that would create thousands of jobs, guess who is stopping that happening!!
KrissKross said:
Are you joking, I have been involved in manufacturing all my life, British engineers are the best in the world and can demand jobs anywhere (including outside the EU).
My clients buy from us because what we make is the best, in the EU or out they will still buy from me.
There are seriously some delusional people on here that have never seen beyond a desk in their lives!
Just to add we could be making ships, trains, and other great projects that would create thousands of jobs, guess who is stopping that happening!!
The Koreans?My clients buy from us because what we make is the best, in the EU or out they will still buy from me.
There are seriously some delusional people on here that have never seen beyond a desk in their lives!
Just to add we could be making ships, trains, and other great projects that would create thousands of jobs, guess who is stopping that happening!!
Murph7355 said:
Out of interest, where do you think the 300-400k jobs will go from purely as a result of an EU exit? Are you talking all related industries or purely banking etc in The City?
I am basing my assumptions on an estimate that over 2M in the UK work in financial services. The main areas I believe would be impacted by lose of EU passporting would be:
Sales to EU customers of wholesale banking services, money market, FX, derivatives, etc. Not so many jobs but tend to be well paid but many back office jobs.
Structuring, bonds, equity issuance, and loan arrangement for EU customers. Again a few job but well paid but many back office jobs.
Custody services, all the main custody banks service their EU customers from the UK. Lots of operational and processing jobs at risk.
Fund management most are in the UK and manage funds based in the EU. Not so many jobs but tend to be well paid but many back office jobs.
Rating agencies are all based in the UK.
Its not just the direct jobs but indirect such as compliance, risk, internal audit. They will follow.
FiF said:
edh said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
If the UK does vote to remain in the EU. the first thing it should do, is take back (or rather stop paying it in, in the first place) the billions of pounds of the UK`s EU rebate that Bliar gave away for nothing. If they whinge we should tell them we will continue to keep those billions in the UK until the EU reforms the CAP.
We should also stop paying the fines the EU imposes on the UK for not using our own money they way they want us to.
That at least would be a small start at rolling back the corruption that is at the heart of the EU.
I have seen no sign that Brexit camp intends to do anything other than doling out the cash to farmers & landowners in a continuation of CAP nonsense.We should also stop paying the fines the EU imposes on the UK for not using our own money they way they want us to.
That at least would be a small start at rolling back the corruption that is at the heart of the EU.
I'd be more likely to back leave if I thought there were meaningful proposals for reform. Are there any?
You are right that the common agricultural policy is a disaster area in general. Farmers represent 5.6% of the EU population, yet only generate 1.6% of the EU GDP, but receive 47% of the total budget through CAP. These figures are for the whole EU, the figures for UK I don't have to hand but the picture isn't as ludicrous as those for the whole EU iirc.
Nevertheless things will have to change, and even in the first stage of Flexcit, the EEA/EFTA stage, we are out of CAP and can start looking at how we want to change things. If you look at New Zealand, for example, in the crisis they experienced, the Govt cut all subsidies overnight as cost saving. It was clear that farmers were farming in a way to meet targets and maximise their subsidy, thus now dependent on subsidy. Now instead of focussing on maximising subsidy they're more focused on their customers and are thriving.
Equally, whilst the idea of a single agricultural and rural plan valid from the North of Scandinavia in the Arctic circle to the arid hills around Greece is unworkable, so is the situation for Britain from the north of Scotland to Devon and Cornwall or Norfolk. So there has to be regional input.
But in essence continuation is to prevent upheaval and provide a safe soft landing, and then revise and change what suits each region and sector at a pace the industry can manage and in a direction better for the nation. Flexcit section 13, covers it.
Ayahuasca said:
KrissKross said:
Are you joking, I have been involved in manufacturing all my life, British engineers are the best in the world and can demand jobs anywhere (including outside the EU).
My clients buy from us because what we make is the best, in the EU or out they will still buy from me.
There are seriously some delusional people on here that have never seen beyond a desk in their lives!
Just to add we could be making ships, trains, and other great projects that would create thousands of jobs, guess who is stopping that happening!!
The Koreans?My clients buy from us because what we make is the best, in the EU or out they will still buy from me.
There are seriously some delusional people on here that have never seen beyond a desk in their lives!
Just to add we could be making ships, trains, and other great projects that would create thousands of jobs, guess who is stopping that happening!!
FiF said:
<snip> If you look at New Zealand, for example, in the crisis they experienced, the Govt cut all subsidies overnight as cost saving. It was clear that farmers were farming in a way to meet targets and maximise their subsidy, thus now dependent on subsidy. Now instead of focussing on maximising subsidy they're more focused on their customers and are thriving.
<snip>
Sorry this is a tad OT but this, as far as I understand (and I read the news from NZ every day), is incorrect. NZ farmers have massive bank debts (primarily dairy farmers) and there is real concern that it is all going to come crashing down. For example, read this headline from a recent news story (by the way, it's probably a good idea for NZ!)<snip>
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/78910411/i...
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Ayahuasca said:
KrissKross said:
Are you joking, I have been involved in manufacturing all my life, British engineers are the best in the world and can demand jobs anywhere (including outside the EU).
My clients buy from us because what we make is the best, in the EU or out they will still buy from me.
There are seriously some delusional people on here that have never seen beyond a desk in their lives!
Just to add we could be making ships, trains, and other great projects that would create thousands of jobs, guess who is stopping that happening!!
The Koreans?My clients buy from us because what we make is the best, in the EU or out they will still buy from me.
There are seriously some delusional people on here that have never seen beyond a desk in their lives!
Just to add we could be making ships, trains, and other great projects that would create thousands of jobs, guess who is stopping that happening!!
Kiwi LS2 said:
Sorry this is a tad OT but this, as far as I understand (and I read the news from NZ every day), is incorrect. NZ farmers have massive bank debts (primarily dairy farmers) and there is real concern that it is all going to come crashing down. For example, read this headline from a recent news story (by the way, it's probably a good idea for NZ!)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/78910411/i...
They should join the EU, plenty of free money going around to help people.http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/78910411/i...
KrissKross said:
///ajd said:
Presumably if we do go all isolationist
How does reaching the entire world under our own control make us isolationists.Its the same stupid comments about "Little Britain", who just so happens to have a population several times greater than Canada!
PROJECT FEAR in full swing all the time.
"Well what if OUR farmers stopped supplying other countries , and only supplied the UK instead ? And we would stop importing other countries meat/dairy/veg?"
What would you call this?
Isolationism is not a bad fit : a policy of remaining apart from the affairs or interests of other groups, especially the political affairs of other countries.
These are the words of your fellow brexiters - take it up with them.
FiF said:
All this diversionary waffle about the accuracy of a quote or misquote doesn't alter the basic situation.
If it's proven fabrication that twists his words to imply something he didn't say - which is then used as the bedrock of an argument about closer union by underhand means, then it is hardly diversionary and does completely undermine Dons argument.If he has non-made up evidence, why does he use made up evidence? Or does he not even realise its made up, despite the links proving it is made up?
don4l said:
///ajd said:
don4l said:
///ajd said:
The discussion that started this was about Minford - and he was not advocating any tariff on EU/German car imports to UK, just accepting a tariff on UK exports to the EU.
I cannot believe that anyone would suggest that Europe would impose tariffs on UK exports while, at the same time the UK would allow tariff free imports.
That is an utterly ridiculous suggestion.
Really!
I cannot believe that you actually typed that.
Take it up with the key official leave economist!
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN0XP15O...
"By leaving the EU and unilaterally scrapping tariffs on imports of food and manufactured goods, Britain would be able to reduce average prices by 8 percent, he said.
Farmers, as well as car manufacturers, would suffer from lower exports to the EU, Minford said." .....as he accepts we would default to WTO EU tariffs.
Barking mad.
At least its good to see some brexiters finally recognise the importance of free trade and the potentially damaging effects of tariffs.
You really are stark, staring mad if you think that anyone believes that that could happen
Utterly, utterly bonkers.
Project Fear has produced some nonsense, but this really takes the biscuit.
Minford - official brexit economist (and presumably acute embarrassment to many)
"By leaving the EU and unilaterally scrapping tariffs on imports of food and manufactured goods, Britain would be able to reduce average prices by 8 percent, he (Minford) said.
Farmers, as well as car manufacturers, would suffer from lower exports to the EU, Minford said." .....as he accepts we would default to WTO EU tariffs.
///ajd said:
KrissKross said:
///ajd said:
Presumably if we do go all isolationist
How does reaching the entire world under our own control make us isolationists.Its the same stupid comments about "Little Britain", who just so happens to have a population several times greater than Canada!
PROJECT FEAR in full swing all the time.
"Well what if OUR farmers stopped supplying other countries , and only supplied the UK instead ? And we would stop importing other countries meat/dairy/veg?"
What would you call this?
Isolationism is not a bad fit : a policy of remaining apart from the affairs or interests of other groups, especially the political affairs of other countries.
These are the words of
After all, you wouldn't want to be lumped in with Euro federalists would you ajd?
don4l said:
///ajd said:
don4l said:
///ajd said:
Bill said:
don4l said:
Here is a quotation that I think we should all consider before we vote on June 23rd.
“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”
Where's that from Don?“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”
http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/why-eu-supersta...
Let's pretend that I quoted it from the page that you linked to.
Tell us why you think that it is a misquote.
Here it is again - from your link :-
'Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation’
https://eufundedproeutroll.wordpress.com/2014/05/2...
I didn't.
Yet another fail on your part.
I copied it from the link that you posted. Therefore, it cannot be a misquote.
I cut and pasted your original quote.
I googled it, quickly confirmed it was a fake quote of Monnet.
You certainly implied you thought Monnet quoted it - and the ONLY place I got it was from you as you were using it to spread your fear about ever closer union.
Totally busted. Just man up and admit it.
///ajd said:
It was a reply to this gem:
"Well what if OUR farmers stopped supplying other countries , and only supplied the UK instead ? And we would stop importing other countries meat/dairy/veg?"
What would you call this?
Isolationism is not a bad fit : a policy of remaining apart from the affairs or interests of other groups, especially the political affairs of other countries.
These are the words of your fellow brexiters - take it up with them.
Why the only? Why would we stop imports of food we require (been many long years since the UK could be self sufficient for all food stuffs) ?"Well what if OUR farmers stopped supplying other countries , and only supplied the UK instead ? And we would stop importing other countries meat/dairy/veg?"
What would you call this?
Isolationism is not a bad fit : a policy of remaining apart from the affairs or interests of other groups, especially the political affairs of other countries.
These are the words of your fellow brexiters - take it up with them.
Where in wanting to out of the EU is the sudden requirement to "remain" apart? Are we withdrawing from NATO, the UN, G8 (well G7 until the Ukraine situation is sorted), The commonwealth, FIFA, UEFA or WTO? The strawman argument you seem to insist on is easy to pull apart - why don't you try your hand at the actual argument?
Sway said:
///ajd said:
KrissKross said:
///ajd said:
Presumably if we do go all isolationist
How does reaching the entire world under our own control make us isolationists.Its the same stupid comments about "Little Britain", who just so happens to have a population several times greater than Canada!
PROJECT FEAR in full swing all the time.
"Well what if OUR farmers stopped supplying other countries , and only supplied the UK instead ? And we would stop importing other countries meat/dairy/veg?"
What would you call this?
Isolationism is not a bad fit : a policy of remaining apart from the affairs or interests of other groups, especially the political affairs of other countries.
These are the words of
After all, you wouldn't want to be lumped in with Euro federalists would you ajd?
But the comprehension on here really needs to go up notch - many brexiters above are arguing with remainers when other brexiters say something they don't agree with. It's not project fear when your own side has gone bonkers.
It's no wonder the Norths have got a bit sweary in frustration.
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