The 'No to the EU' campaign

[don4l]

Sway said:

Is that what I said, or did I say I welcome the drive to improve and outcompete?

Then everyone benefits - the company, it's customers, and it's shareholders.

10% is a doddle, if the drive is there. Tariffs prevent that drive...

Who are you addressing your question to?

[KrissKross]

KrissKross said:

///ajd said:

Presumably

AJD, which bit of the FACTS they are discussing here is incorrect:

https://youtu.be/_c8jznwzVbE

Still waiting.

[///ajd]

Sway said:

To add, it's my second preference, but only due to a compressed schedule.

Why do you think Nissan Sunderland is one of, if not the, most efficient car plant in the world? Because it has to compete globally within Nissan to win it's business...

Very true

Why did Nissan put it in the EU, sorry UK?

As well as govt subsidy, avoiding 10% non-EU import tariff perhaps for all sales into EU?

I really don't think there is much to say about the car industry in the UK that doesn't lead to a remain conclusion.

[///ajd]

KrissKross said:

KrissKross said:

///ajd said:

Presumably

AJD, which bit of the FACTS they are discussing here is incorrect:

https://youtu.be/_c8jznwzVbE

Still waiting.

I can't stream that at moment, coming up as 11 minutes long. which facts, when?

[KrissKross]

///ajd said:

KrissKross said:

KrissKross said:

///ajd said:

Presumably

AJD, which bit of the FACTS they are discussing here is incorrect:

https://youtu.be/_c8jznwzVbE

Still waiting.

I can't stream that at moment, coming up as 11 minutes long. which facts, when?

Ok come back to me later when you have time to watch.

[don4l]

KrissKross said:

///ajd said:

KrissKross said:

KrissKross said:

///ajd said:

Presumably

AJD, which bit of the FACTS they are discussing here is incorrect:

https://youtu.be/_c8jznwzVbE

Still waiting.

I can't stream that at moment, coming up as 11 minutes long. which facts, when?

Ok come back to me later when you have time to watch.

He has no intention of watching it.

He is trolling.

I'd ignore him until he comes back with a question based on the video. If he cannot do this, then he is simply trying to disrupt the thread.

Edited by don4l on Friday 29th April 18:18

[///ajd]

KrissKross said:

Ok come back to me later when you have time to watch.

you must have a favourite bit that appealed?

not afraid i'll pull it to bits are you?

mogg is competent but i fancy my chances with banks

[s2art]

///ajd said:

s2art said:

///ajd said:

I think I've gone on about the last point enough - serious brexiters must be a bit deflated about his remarks though, no?

Not at all. He stated that we would be better off even with no trade deals. On the DP he also said this report was merely a benchmark. Nobody has said that the farmers and car producers will not get assistance of some sort to compensate.

So instead of having car makers prospering in the EU and worldwide without subsidy, we'll start givng handouts (1970s British Leyland style?) to make up for the worse trade conditions that brexit has imposed on them?

Nope. Just make the playing field fair. No different in principle to anti-dumping regulations.

[Bill]

Have any of the main Tory brexiters mentioned a direction they might take post leave vote?

[///ajd]

don4l said:

KrissKross said:

///ajd said:

KrissKross said:

KrissKross said:

///ajd said:

Presumably

AJD, which bit of the FACTS they are discussing here is incorrect:

https://youtu.be/_c8jznwzVbE

Still waiting.

I can't stream that at moment, coming up as 11 minutes long. which facts, when?

Ok come back to me later when you have time to watch.

He has no intention of watching it.

He is trolling.

Don, proving a quote you championed was made up is not trolling.

Its a public service.

I will watch it on wifi - if only for moggs terrific accent

[pkrplyr]

Bill said:

Have any of the main Tory brexiters mentioned a direction they might take post leave vote?

The wilderness?

[///ajd]

don4l said:

Bill said:

don4l said:

Here is a quotation that I think we should all consider before we vote on June 23rd.

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”

Where's that from Don?

It's usually attributed to Jean Monnet, who is considered to be one of the founding fathers of the EU. It is worth doing a bit of Googling on him.

He may, or may not have said those words, but he did express similar sentiments to Churchill in private.

Hmmm, Don you seemed perfectly aware it was attributed to Monnet and was quoting it on that basis before it was debunked.

[Sway]

///ajd said:

Sway said:

To add, it's my second preference, but only due to a compressed schedule.

Why do you think Nissan Sunderland is one of, if not the, most efficient car plant in the world? Because it has to compete globally within Nissan to win it's business...

Very true

Why did Nissan put it in the EU, sorry UK?

As well as govt subsidy, avoiding 10% non-EU import tariff perhaps for all sales into EU?

I really don't think there is much to say about the car industry in the UK that doesn't lead to a remain conclusion.

Yet they've significantly outcompeted not only non European factories, but those in the EU too. So much so that despite Ghosn's statements about it's future if we weren't in the Euro, it's expanded faster than any of the others...

Why wouldn't they rise to the challenge once again, as they have several times before?

[Mr Whippy]

JawKnee said:

EUROZONE smashes growth forecasts and returns to pre crisis levels. This now means the Eurozone economy is getting stronger while the UK's growth is lower and on a downward decline.

http://gu.com/p/4tm37

We'd best rush in without delay. Just look at what we're missing!

0.6% GDP is probably gonna disappear next year once a new layer of beurocrats gets added to pour over the latest beurocratic nonsense they dream into existence.

[Einion Yrth]

I offer this only as a service to those who care, but it's "bureaucrat"; I know it's a difficult and somehow non-intuitive word to spell...

[Mr Whippy]

Einion Yrth said:

I offer this only as a service to those who care, but it's "bureaucrat"; I know it's a difficult and somehow non-intuitive word to spell...

Sorry

Another one for me to memorise!

[Einion Yrth]

Mr Whippy said:

Einion Yrth said:

I offer this only as a service to those who care, but it's "bureaucrat"; I know it's a difficult and somehow non-intuitive word to spell...

Sorry

Another one for me to memorise!

Not really an issue, I know it's a bd; as I say, offered only as information, not as any attempt at a put-down.

[FiF]

///ajd said:

FiF said:

All this diversionary waffle about the accuracy of a quote or misquote doesn't alter the basic situation.

If it's proven fabrication that twists his words to imply something he didn't say - which is then used as the bedrock of an argument about closer union by underhand means, then it is hardly diversionary and does completely undermine Dons argument.

If he has non-made up evidence, why does he use made up evidence? Or does he not even realise its made up, despite the links proving it is made up?

Basic situation unaltered , ever closer union. Not wanted, not desired, except for by a very few.

If the Remain campaign were honest about that the result would be a foregone conclusion.

If the politicians had been honest about it from the start we wouldn't be in this mess. We would be in another situation entirely.

Now run along and deny that.

As for things that other 'fellow travellers' say that's up for them to justify and defend.

[wc98]

///ajd said:

don4l said:

///ajd said:

don4l said:

///ajd said:

Bill said:

don4l said:

Here is a quotation that I think we should all consider before we vote on June 23rd.

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”

Where's that from Don?

This suggests it is a misquote and misleading

http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/why-eu-supersta...

Misquote?

Let's pretend that I quoted it from the page that you linked to.

Tell us why you think that it is a misquote.

Here it is again - from your link :-
'Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation’

Its actually worse than a misquote. Looks like its a 2009 fabrication to influence another EU referendum, based on something he didn't really say in 1952. The actual record of what he said is quite different.

https://eufundedproeutroll.wordpress.com/2014/05/2...

You seem to be assuming that I quoted Jean Monnet.

I didn't.

Yet another fail on your part.

I copied it from the link that you posted. Therefore, it cannot be a misquote.

Oh dear Don. Another bad day.

I cut and pasted your original quote.

I googled it, quickly confirmed it was a fake quote of Monnet.

You certainly implied you thought Monnet quoted it - and the ONLY place I got it was from you as you were using it to spread your fear about ever closer union.

Totally busted. Just man up and admit it.

i do not recall don4l attributing the quote to anyone in particular.
this is apparently the origin of the quote.

"The following quote is often attributed to Jean Monnet; in fact it is a paraphrase of a characterization of Monnet's intentions by British Conservative Adrian Hilton:

"Europe's nations should be guided towards a super state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation."[5]

Monnet is reported to have expressed somewhat similar sentiments, but without the notion of intentional deception, saying "Via money Europe could become political in five years" and "… the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would … the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal."[6]

please read the last sentence , this is directly attributed to monnet and amounts to the same outlook in the quote don4l posted. http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Jean_Mon...

[steveT350C]

///ajd said:

KrissKross said:

KrissKross said:

///ajd said:

Presumably

AJD, which bit of the FACTS they are discussing here is incorrect:

https://youtu.be/_c8jznwzVbE

Still waiting.

I can't stream that at moment, coming up as 11 minutes long. which facts, when?

How is your stream?