The 'No to the EU' campaign
Discussion
jjlynn27 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
EU openness, transparency and democratic process in action with the TTIP treaty and negotiations.
The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
From breitbart?The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 6th May 10:45
HTH
jjlynn27 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
EU openness, transparency and democratic process in action with the TTIP treaty and negotiations.
The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
From breitbart?The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 6th May 10:45
wiggy001 said:
jjlynn27 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
EU openness, transparency and democratic process in action with the TTIP treaty and negotiations.
The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
From breitbart?The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 6th May 10:45
HTH
FiF said:
jjlynn27 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
EU openness, transparency and democratic process in action with the TTIP treaty and negotiations.
The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
From breitbart?The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 6th May 10:45
jjlynn27 said:
wiggy001 said:
jjlynn27 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
EU openness, transparency and democratic process in action with the TTIP treaty and negotiations.
The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
From breitbart?The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 6th May 10:45
HTH
Esseesse said:
M-6fhs1 said:
blindswelledrat said:
Jesus. So you think that Germany is currently the same as Germany under Hitler, just cleverer and killing a few less jews?
fk me some people on here are stupid.
Jumping to conclusions.fk me some people on here are stupid.
Who has the most influence in EU?
Who is the face of the EU?
Merkel
Esseesse said:
M-6fhs1 said:
blindswelledrat said:
Jesus. So you think that Germany is currently the same as Germany under Hitler, just cleverer and killing a few less jews?
fk me some people on here are stupid.
Jumping to conclusions.fk me some people on here are stupid.
Who has the most influence in EU?
Who is the face of the EU?
Merkel
QuantumTokoloshi said:
FiF said:
jjlynn27 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
EU openness, transparency and democratic process in action with the TTIP treaty and negotiations.
The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
From breitbart?The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 6th May 10:45
Prime Ministers listen too much to voters, complains EU's Juncker
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/05/prime-m...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/05/prime-m...
Esseesse said:
M-6fhs1 said:
blindswelledrat said:
Jesus. So you think that Germany is currently the same as Germany under Hitler, just cleverer and killing a few less jews?
fk me some people on here are stupid.
Jumping to conclusions.fk me some people on here are stupid.
Who has the most influence in EU?
Who is the face of the EU?
Merkel
I do not agree with his views on religion, but have a great respect for his historic and geopolitical insights.
steveT350C said:
Prime Ministers listen too much to voters, complains EU's Juncker
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/05/prime-m...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/05/prime-m...
We-know-best-socialist-control-freak-EU-drone has spoken. Juncker is nominally placed centre-Right, but is averse to free markets and has been labelled “the most socialist Christian Democrat there is".
Another outbreak of EU foot in mouth disease and great news for the Leave side.
Presumably the numpty wants to be listened to.
steveT350C said:
Prime Ministers listen too much to voters, complains EU's Juncker
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/05/prime-m...
So, why should people listen to Juncker more than their elected representatives?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/05/prime-m...
wiggy001 said:
But when you say "the UK" you are not talking about me and you are you? Who gets to tick "no" on the ballot paper?
And you and Zod have conveniently ignored my second, easier question - how do I vote against Turkey's visa-free travel arrangement and several billion euro bung? No-one that has voted for this Conservative government (not that I did btw) saw "give in to Turkey's blackmail" on the manifesto and even if we had, and had voted in a Eurosceptic party, what could they have done to stop this?
2 answers as requested. And you and Zod have conveniently ignored my second, easier question - how do I vote against Turkey's visa-free travel arrangement and several billion euro bung? No-one that has voted for this Conservative government (not that I did btw) saw "give in to Turkey's blackmail" on the manifesto and even if we had, and had voted in a Eurosceptic party, what could they have done to stop this?
1, Why should you get a vote on visa free travel in the Schengen area since the UK is not part of the Schengen area.
2. Vote for a UK Government who are prepared to tackle the EU budget.
jjlynn27 said:
wiggy001 said:
jjlynn27 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
EU openness, transparency and democratic process in action with the TTIP treaty and negotiations.
The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
From breitbart?The Mafia could learn a thing or two here.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 6th May 10:45
HTH
Mrr T said:
wiggy001 said:
But when you say "the UK" you are not talking about me and you are you? Who gets to tick "no" on the ballot paper?
And you and Zod have conveniently ignored my second, easier question - how do I vote against Turkey's visa-free travel arrangement and several billion euro bung? No-one that has voted for this Conservative government (not that I did btw) saw "give in to Turkey's blackmail" on the manifesto and even if we had, and had voted in a Eurosceptic party, what could they have done to stop this?
2 answers as requested. And you and Zod have conveniently ignored my second, easier question - how do I vote against Turkey's visa-free travel arrangement and several billion euro bung? No-one that has voted for this Conservative government (not that I did btw) saw "give in to Turkey's blackmail" on the manifesto and even if we had, and had voted in a Eurosceptic party, what could they have done to stop this?
Mrr T said:
1, Why should you get a vote on visa free travel in the Schengen area since the UK is not part of the Schengen area.
Well as the arrangement has been made with the EU, of which we are a part, you could argue that we should have a say. Otherwise you are accepting that we already have a multi-tiered EU and we are not at the "top table" that CMD and friends keep banging on about.But an obvious follow-up question is: How were the French/German/Dutch etc public able to vote against this?
MrrT said:
2. Vote for a UK Government who are prepared to tackle the EU budget.
I did And so did those that voted for the Tories if you look at their pre-election manifesto. But the truth is that no UK government can do a thing about it and argo neither can the British people.
But humour me here - had UKIP got the keys to number 10 last year, what could they have done to stop the EU paying billions to turkey?
Edited by wiggy001 on Friday 6th May 13:54
wiggy001 said:
Well as the arrangement has been made with the EU, of which we are a part, you could argue that we should have a say. Otherwise you are accepting that we already have a multi-tiered EU and we are not at the "top table" that CMD and friends keep banging on about.
But an obvious follow-up question is: How were the French/German/Dutch etc public able to vote against this?
We already have a multi-tiered EU. The relationship between the EU countries and the EEA/EFTA members and Switzerland are different. The relationship between EU euro in and out members is different.Interestingly the Schengen agreement covers the EEA/EFTA members and Switzerland but not all the EU countries.But an obvious follow-up question is: How were the French/German/Dutch etc public able to vote against this?
As for French/German/Dutch they can vote in a governments who renounce the treaty.
I would say I am not sure how much difference Schegen makes the internal EU borders are just to long to properly control.
wiggy001 said:
I did
And so did those that voted for the Tories if you look at their pre-election manifesto. But the truth is that no UK government can do a thing about it and argo neither can the British people.
But humour me here - had UKIP got the keys to number 10 last year, what could they have done to stop the EU paying billions to turkey?
Of cause the UK government can do something about it but for sensible reasons decided not to; The UK contribution and the work it funds is in the link below.And so did those that voted for the Tories if you look at their pre-election manifesto. But the truth is that no UK government can do a thing about it and argo neither can the British people.
But humour me here - had UKIP got the keys to number 10 last year, what could they have done to stop the EU paying billions to turkey?
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-rele...
As for the UKIP the idea of that bunch of idiots forming a government makes me laught.
If you are interested in more details on the agreement here is a link.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-963_e...
It worth reading because of the way its circles the issue that the EU has no real power over irregular migrants once they claim refugee status. Then its down to local courts and even the ICHR.
Mrr T said:
As for French/German/Dutch they can vote in a governments who renounce the treaty.
Which treaty are you talking about? Try this:Open up this link
Press CTRL+F
Type the word "Treaty"
Let me know how many matches are found.
So for a third and final time I ask you how the citizens of Europe can stop this.
wiggy001 said:
Mrr T said:
As for French/German/Dutch they can vote in a governments who renounce the treaty.
Which treaty are you talking about? Try this:Open up this link
Press CTRL+F
Type the word "Treaty"
Let me know how many matches are found.
So for a third and final time I ask you how the citizens of Europe can stop this.
Maybe you should google Schengen Agreement and Amsterdam Treaty.
I have seen some academic discussion about whether a government could renounce the Schengen clauses in the EU agreement. Its clear a government could do that and under other EU laws there is very little the EU can do but kick the country out of the Schengen zone. I find that's quite amusing.
So all the voters need to do is vote for a government who commits to do that.
Why vote to Leave, the short version
You might not agree with every point, there's the odd one I'd go hmmm but from Roland Smith of the Adam Smith Institute.
You might not agree with every point, there's the odd one I'd go hmmm but from Roland Smith of the Adam Smith Institute.
Roland Smith said:
Why leave? Because in the event of a Remain vote:
· The EU will never listen to us again; we will never again be able to argue credibly for any EU reform. We tried, we even ‘pointed a gun’ at them, we failed, but we chose to carry on anyway. That will have serious repercussions.
· There will be no change to immigration into the UK from the EUl now or ever. It will stay literally out of control.
· The EU’s push towards creating “a country called Europe” will accelerate. Britain, the awkward partner, will no longer act as a brake on political union.
· The EU will feel it has greater authority to stamp on national democracy in pursuit of its goals. We will have accepted rule by unelected officials. There’s no such thing as a qualified remain vote; it’ll be taken by Brussels as a total endorsement.
· George Osborne may become prime minister
· We will have accepted the notion that living under our own laws (i.e. that thing called democracy) is now a minority viewpoint and over time will become a fringe viewpoint.
· Politics in the UK will become ever more irrelevant and will be held in ever more contempt by the people.
· “Anti-politics” in the UK will grow. So will reactionary (and very unpleasant) movements across the continent.
· Britain will become ever more irrelevant on the world stage as the EU takes over.
· The ‘status quo’ (staying where we are now) will have lost. Instead we will remain on a fractious journey towards political union.
· “When it becomes serious, you have to lie”; Jean-Claude Juncker. This individual and this mindset will have won.
· Those who championed Britain joining the euro will have won. Those who correctly predicted the euro disaster will have lost.
· The question of Britain’s membership of the euro will come back into focus: “a logical next step in our membership”.
· The EU will dominate the continent of Europe ever more. Non-EU countries like Norway and Switzerland will be bullied into conformity.
· Fear will have triumphed over hope.
· The essential message of the Remain camp is “Britain is weak and small, it can’t survive, let’s be done with it”. We will have accepted that position.
· The banks, big business, Goldman Sachs, the international political quangocrats and the vast majority of Westminster politicians, will have triumphed. So will “New Labour”; Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson.
· We will be told that the question of Britain’s EU membership is now settled once and for all.
· We will never again have the opportunity to leave. Never. Integration will have gone too far. If you thought disentangling from the EU was difficult now, it’ll only get much worse.
· The things that British voters have long complained about will still afflict our country. A Remain vote is a vote of confidence in the whole rotten political system.
· You will have voted for something whose objective (of political union) is rejected even by many/most Remain supporters. Indeed you will have voted for something that the Remain camp admits is rubbish.
And why should you positively vote Leave?
· Because you want trade and friendship, but expressly do NOT want political union with 27 other countries.
· Because you want to enter exit talks that might actually give us something instead of getting 40 more years of the same.
· You will be returning better democratic control over the politics that governs us.
· You will break the EU’s anti-democratic strangle-hold over the European continent.
· You will confirm that Britain is still a country to be reckoned with.
· You will be moving Britain back to a normal state of affairs—that of national sovereignty—seen as completely normal everywhere in the world except in the EU
· The EU will never listen to us again; we will never again be able to argue credibly for any EU reform. We tried, we even ‘pointed a gun’ at them, we failed, but we chose to carry on anyway. That will have serious repercussions.
· There will be no change to immigration into the UK from the EUl now or ever. It will stay literally out of control.
· The EU’s push towards creating “a country called Europe” will accelerate. Britain, the awkward partner, will no longer act as a brake on political union.
· The EU will feel it has greater authority to stamp on national democracy in pursuit of its goals. We will have accepted rule by unelected officials. There’s no such thing as a qualified remain vote; it’ll be taken by Brussels as a total endorsement.
· George Osborne may become prime minister
· We will have accepted the notion that living under our own laws (i.e. that thing called democracy) is now a minority viewpoint and over time will become a fringe viewpoint.
· Politics in the UK will become ever more irrelevant and will be held in ever more contempt by the people.
· “Anti-politics” in the UK will grow. So will reactionary (and very unpleasant) movements across the continent.
· Britain will become ever more irrelevant on the world stage as the EU takes over.
· The ‘status quo’ (staying where we are now) will have lost. Instead we will remain on a fractious journey towards political union.
· “When it becomes serious, you have to lie”; Jean-Claude Juncker. This individual and this mindset will have won.
· Those who championed Britain joining the euro will have won. Those who correctly predicted the euro disaster will have lost.
· The question of Britain’s membership of the euro will come back into focus: “a logical next step in our membership”.
· The EU will dominate the continent of Europe ever more. Non-EU countries like Norway and Switzerland will be bullied into conformity.
· Fear will have triumphed over hope.
· The essential message of the Remain camp is “Britain is weak and small, it can’t survive, let’s be done with it”. We will have accepted that position.
· The banks, big business, Goldman Sachs, the international political quangocrats and the vast majority of Westminster politicians, will have triumphed. So will “New Labour”; Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson.
· We will be told that the question of Britain’s EU membership is now settled once and for all.
· We will never again have the opportunity to leave. Never. Integration will have gone too far. If you thought disentangling from the EU was difficult now, it’ll only get much worse.
· The things that British voters have long complained about will still afflict our country. A Remain vote is a vote of confidence in the whole rotten political system.
· You will have voted for something whose objective (of political union) is rejected even by many/most Remain supporters. Indeed you will have voted for something that the Remain camp admits is rubbish.
And why should you positively vote Leave?
· Because you want trade and friendship, but expressly do NOT want political union with 27 other countries.
· Because you want to enter exit talks that might actually give us something instead of getting 40 more years of the same.
· You will be returning better democratic control over the politics that governs us.
· You will break the EU’s anti-democratic strangle-hold over the European continent.
· You will confirm that Britain is still a country to be reckoned with.
· You will be moving Britain back to a normal state of affairs—that of national sovereignty—seen as completely normal everywhere in the world except in the EU
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