Irish vote of gay marriage

[MarshPhantom]

Reminded me of the old joke about the two Irish gays - Martin Fitzpatrick and Patrick Fitzmartin.

[Eric Mc]

BigBo said:

Roscommon, Longford, Leitrim and Cavan could possibly be the last of the chulchie county's, and north Dublin is still.. lets just say some parts are ''a bit council'', Ireland is a country of younger/modern-minded people ran by old fogeys has been for decades, not just in age terms the mentality of officials is like pre-internet stuck in the 90's, still think the Irish people will just accept what's thrown on the table and wont know any better, I would expect that to change over the next ten or so years, maybe sooner its 100years next year since independence ya'd never know if were lucky people power will get a boost, and all the water billing commotion isn't over yet, be nice to get the gobste's outa the Dail,
we're a lot more libral even cosmopolitan then most would think, not just silly paddy's anymore, 20years ago we were 10years behind most other cultures/nations, now especially after today we're on par

the church lost its last real bible bashers about ten years ago, also I'd say a good percentage of priests, bishops etc. are batting for the other team not referring to the abuses just a lot are gentle souls and just naturally kind from my experience-the gay-dar tells me, its something most people just think/accept

also there's loads of churches popping up there's one in a old tyre shop round the corner from me, the catholic church of old has faded away as it should, not completely but its not a major player in decision making anymore most of the schools/convents Christian brothers etc. are history at this stage

while it affects me in no way I do know people who it would and have known, IMO its a non-issue I don't care what happens in others bedrooms just don't prance around in tutu's singing its raining men and we'll get along grand, honestly fair play to them,

atleast we now know the chulcies true weakness - there afraid of the gays....no problem with sheep tho! haha

I'm a north east Dubliner and do acknowledge that there was a lot of social housing built in that area from the 1930s right through to the 1980s. I myself was brought up in what was a Dublin Corporation house. However, to say North East Dublin is a bit "council" is disingenuous to say the least. Many of the "council" houses built in that area have been in private ownership for decades. Also, there are other parts of Dublin that have even larger "council" estates (West and South West Dublin, for instance) so I don't think allocating a "council" demographic to North East Dublin explains the way the voting went there.

In fact, I would hazard a guess that the relatively high proportions of non-Catholic churchgoers (Anglican, Presbyterian and Methodist) who live in Malahide, Swords and Howth may have had more of an influence on the (slightly) lower "Yes" vote.

Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 24th May 08:57

[voyds9]

It's also Bombay, Ayres Rock, Burma, Rhodesia and Zanzibar

[MentalSarcasm]

"Church in Ireland needs 'reality check' after gay marriage vote"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32862824

I was especially bemused by this quote;

""I ask myself, most of these young people who voted yes are products of our Catholic school system for 12 years. I'm saying there's a big challenge there to see how we get across the message of the Church," he added."

I don't think people realise that they're well aware of the message of the Church, but they're chosen to actively ignore it. If the Church wants to become a bit more relevant, then it doesn't need to get a message across, they need to change the message entirely.

[Eric Mc]

Yes - they are missing the point. They've lost their grip and their influence. Shouting their "message" louder and clearer won't make a jot of difference. People are making their own decisions based on their own morals - which is as it should be in a democracy.

[Troubleatmill]

Gay marriage is the greatest evil in the country.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gay...


And here was me thinking that systematic raping of children by priests might be up there.
Or the edict by the Pope not to talk to anyone about it ( on pain of ex-communication ) - might be a more evil crime.
Or... well pretty much everything the Catholic Church has done over the last two thousand years is reprehensible.

No - apparently two people who just want to marry - is the greatest evil.

[Fishtigua]

What worries me is the void left by the Cathlic church. In other parts of the world, the far right bible bashers have moved in and taken up the cudgel to beat the people.

In parts of Africa they have made laws where rape and murder of gays is acceptable but being a loving couple is a death sentence.

[Eric Mc]

Whilst the Catholic Church (rightly) gets lambasted over their power and influence in Ireland - don't forget that all the other Christian Churches in Ireland hold broadly similar views on gay marriage - and in some cases had been even more vociferous in their condemnation of the proposed law changes.

In Northern Ireland it is largely the Protestant Churches that hold sway and it is their opposition to gay marriage that is causing problems there.

[Eric Mc]

Fishtigua said:

What worries me is the void left by the Cathlic church. In other parts of the world, the far right bible bashers have moved in and taken up the cudgel to beat the people.

In parts of Africa they have made laws where rape and murder of gays is acceptable but being a loving couple is a death sentence.

I am pretty sure that will not be happening in the Republic of Ireland. They aren't going to step out from under the oppression of one group to put themselves under the influence of another. Ireland is not Africa or the Middle East. It's a western democracy with a pretty well educated population. If you want to compare it with any other country, I would say somewhere like Denmark might be more appropriate.

[Fishtigua]

Eric Mc said:

If you want to compare it with any other country, I would say somewhere like Denmark might be more appropriate.

What? The Denmark that had the cartoonist shot by nutters?

Edit>

Not shot, only a knife and an axe.

Bless.

Edited by Fishtigua on Sunday 24th May 10:05

[Troubleatmill]

Eric Mc said:

Whilst the Catholic Church (rightly) gets lambasted over their power and influence in Ireland - don't forget that all the other Christian Churches in Ireland hold broadly similar views on gay marriage - and in some cases had been even more vociferous in their condemnation of the proposed law changes.

In Northern Ireland it is largely the Protestant Churches that hold sway and it is their opposition to gay marriage that is causing problems there.

I'm not overly keen on any organisation that touts there is a big fairy in the sky - and he's really not happy about your choice in who you are loving..

[Halb]

Yay for Southern Ireland!

I actually thought the 'yes' vote would be more in the 70% area, but 62% is decent, and it can only go up as Ireland (the south anyway) seems more a place looking at the future than the past.

The demographic on sexual orientation are interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexu...
When anonymity is guaranteed, the percentages go up.
I also think myself that orientation is a slidey scale, and as people lose the religious/Victorian hangups over sexuality labelling and objectification might one day fade away.

[Eric Mc]

Fishtigua said:

Eric Mc said:

If you want to compare it with any other country, I would say somewhere like Denmark might be more appropriate.

What? The Denmark that had the cartoonist shot by nutters?

Edit>

Not shot, only a knife and an axe.

Bless.

Edited by Fishtigua on Sunday 24th May 10:05

No, the Denmark which is largely secular and tolerant. EVERY country has had its share of idiotic attacks - Ireland more than some.

[NDA]

Troubleatmill said:

Gay marriage is the greatest evil in the country.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gay...


And here was me thinking that systematic raping of children by priests might be up there.
Or the edict by the Pope not to talk to anyone about it ( on pain of ex-communication ) - might be a more evil crime.
Or... well pretty much everything the Catholic Church has done over the last two thousand years is reprehensible.

No - apparently two people who just want to marry - is the greatest evil.

Yep, that sums it up.

[JensenA]

MentalSarcasm said:

"Church in Ireland needs 'reality check' after gay marriage vote"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32862824

I was especially bemused by this quote;

""I ask myself, most of these young people who voted yes are products of our Catholic school system for 12 years. I'm saying there's a big challenge there to see how we get across the message of the Church," he added."

I don't think people realise that they're well aware of the message of the Church, but they're chosen to actively ignore it. If the Church wants to become a bit more relevant, then it doesn't need to get a message across, they need to change the message entirely.

No they shouldn't change their message one little bit. One of the reasons I am so anti-church - not religion, anti 'church' is the way they try to change their 'message' to reflect modern views, in order to attract greater numbers to attend church. Religion is Religion, you either believe in it or you don't. If the Christian church has, for thousands of years, maintained that same sex marriage is immoral and wrong, and women priests are wrong, then the fact that they can simply change their views, is proof to me, that Religion has no place in the modern world, and is totally irrelevant. It isn't a Golf Club that can change it's rules to reflect modern trends, it's an ethos based on 2000 year old books, if that is what they believe, then keep believing it, and fade into irrelevance.

[Eric Mc]

A bit like the process the Labour Party are going through at the moment.

[Halb]

Fishtigua said:

What? The Denmark that had the cartoonist shot by nutters?
Edit>
Not shot, only a knife and an axe.
Bless.

Edited by Fishtigua on Sunday 24th May 10:05

As said, Denmark is mostly secular and accepting. I had to look up the attack you refer to. It was a Muslim immigrant who attacked the Dane.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Westergaard#Att...

[JensenA]

Eric Mc said:

A bit like the process the Labour Party are going through at the moment.

Exactly, I almost mentioned that in my post.

[Halb]

JensenA said:

No they shouldn't change their message one little bit. One of the reasons I am so anti-church - not religion, anti 'church' is the way they try to change their 'message' to reflect modern views, in order to attract greater numbers to attend church. Religion is Religion, you either believe in it or you don't. If the Christian church has, for thousands of years, maintained that same sex marriage is immoral and wrong, and women priests are wrong, then the fact that they can simply change their views, is proof to me, that Religion has no place in the modern world, and is totally irrelevant. It isn't a Golf Club that can change it's rules to reflect modern trends, it's an ethos based on 2000 year old books, if that is what they believe, then keep believing it, and fade into irrelevance.

Desperate to keep the scam going.
Imagine if priests and vicars started saying, 'hey it doesn't matter if you don't come to church or take part in empty rituals and mumble nonsense; just go home and keep faith in your hearts and look after your neighbour and be good and kind. We don't actually need your money, we're amongst the richest institutions in the world.'

[Fishtigua]

The 2 places on Earth that guarantee consquenceses for being gay, Uganda and Pakistan, with laws made just recently to condem to jail or death for being gay, have the world's highest Google ratings for the said subject for hits on pron channels. ISIS just throw someone who looks a bit gay off a building infront of a baying crowd.

In Uganda, the nutty US evangalists sort of okayed the rape and murder of anyone looking a bit gayish. The Republican voters may back this in the next US elections!!!