The not Gay cake discrimination thread
Discussion
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but why put in for the job and then get compo because you don't want to work under the terms that were probably advertised.
Am i missing something apart from a load of compo, They'll be a load of religious nutters objecting to women driving in North London as well as Saudi Arabia next
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
Am i missing something apart from a load of compo, They'll be a load of religious nutters objecting to women driving in North London as well as Saudi Arabia next
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 29th May 17:37
.PurpleMoonlight said:
Lesson 1: As an employer, never give a reason for any decision unless you are required to do so by law.
Especially when that reason is essentially "you're a Jew."Apart from thinking their HR team should probably find a new career, they need people to work Saturdays because presumably that is when they need the extra staff, there is no point hiring her to only work Monday to Friday if the reason they need help is because of Saturdays.
Sir Humphrey said:
Especially when that reason is essentially "you're a Jew."
Apart from thinking their HR team should probably find a new career, they need people to work Saturdays because presumably that is when they need the extra staff, there is no point hiring her to only work Monday to Friday if the reason they need help is because of Saturdays.
No. The reason is NOT "you're a Jew" The reason was "we need someone who will work on a Saturday, like everyone else". Apart from thinking their HR team should probably find a new career, they need people to work Saturdays because presumably that is when they need the extra staff, there is no point hiring her to only work Monday to Friday if the reason they need help is because of Saturdays.
As a jew, who often sticks up for the rights of jews to practice their religion, I find this whole case embarrassing. The suggestion that it's discrimination against religion is damaging and wrong on every level
Yes the (prospective) employer could have handled it differently, but they shouldn't have to. If the woman was working a Mon-Fri job and was suddenly asked to work Saturdays, then maybe it might be different. But you don't apply for a job when the busiest day is Saturday, knowing you can't work on a Saturday and then accuse the employer of discrimination or indeed any wrongdoing if you don't get the job because of same
It's like a nun going for a job in a strip bar and then complaining that the strippers are against her religious beliefs and asking the employer to stop exposing her to nudity
This comment has been posted in the article
“Our client made every effort to resolve this matter directly with the employer without having to bring a claim to Tribunal. The essence of this case is that the client was an excellent candidate for the job in every respect, except for the fact that she could not work on Saturdays for religious reasons. The job advert itself did not state a requirement to work Saturdays, but instead was advertised as a seven-day a week operation, whereby employees were required to work five days per week – which our client was able to do. Ultimately, the case was won because the employer was unable to justify rejecting our client on this basis, having employed other members of staff that were unable to work on particular days of the week for other reasons. Given the size of this employer, Tribunal decided that it should have done more to accommodate our client’s circumstances.
Let's assume that the one day they haven't accommodated day's off for other staff is a Saturday - the busiest day. Maybe in that case, one of the factors that helped win the case was the advert not stating the job involved compulsory Saturday attendance. But really, should that wording in the advert be the basis for a compensation claim ? Of more than a couple of days wasted at interview and travel costs for same. The claimant should be ashamed of themselves.
Yes the (prospective) employer could have handled it differently, but they shouldn't have to. If the woman was working a Mon-Fri job and was suddenly asked to work Saturdays, then maybe it might be different. But you don't apply for a job when the busiest day is Saturday, knowing you can't work on a Saturday and then accuse the employer of discrimination or indeed any wrongdoing if you don't get the job because of same
It's like a nun going for a job in a strip bar and then complaining that the strippers are against her religious beliefs and asking the employer to stop exposing her to nudity
This comment has been posted in the article
“Our client made every effort to resolve this matter directly with the employer without having to bring a claim to Tribunal. The essence of this case is that the client was an excellent candidate for the job in every respect, except for the fact that she could not work on Saturdays for religious reasons. The job advert itself did not state a requirement to work Saturdays, but instead was advertised as a seven-day a week operation, whereby employees were required to work five days per week – which our client was able to do. Ultimately, the case was won because the employer was unable to justify rejecting our client on this basis, having employed other members of staff that were unable to work on particular days of the week for other reasons. Given the size of this employer, Tribunal decided that it should have done more to accommodate our client’s circumstances.
Let's assume that the one day they haven't accommodated day's off for other staff is a Saturday - the busiest day. Maybe in that case, one of the factors that helped win the case was the advert not stating the job involved compulsory Saturday attendance. But really, should that wording in the advert be the basis for a compensation claim ? Of more than a couple of days wasted at interview and travel costs for same. The claimant should be ashamed of themselves.
Edited by jonby on Saturday 30th May 07:10
Edited by jonby on Saturday 30th May 07:11
Sir Humphrey said:
Especially when that reason is essentially "you're a Jew."
It isn't - if she had been a Jew who works Saturdays (many do) then she may have been offered the job.Similarly - had she been an atheist but told the interviewer she couldn't work Saturdays - she still would have been rejected.
This issue is about working Saturdays - not about religion.
FourWheelDrift said:
It highlights one thing to me, what happens when you use of honesty in feedback from the interview.
What's wrong with the simple ”I'm sorry you have not been successful this time”.
What a lovely society these lawyers are creating for us. Tell the truth and some scumbag and his even more scummy lawyers will sue you.What's wrong with the simple ”I'm sorry you have not been successful this time”.
grumbledoak said:
What a lovely society these lawyers are creating for us. Tell the truth and some scumbag and his even more scummy lawyers will sue you.
That's the point. The law is created by lawyers, with lawyers and for lawyers. There is more money paid for appeal hearings than initial hearings, and heard before 'eminent' lawyers. This all serves to enhance the mystique around the cadre. The greater the wriggle room built into the statute the greater the law serves its servants - and their successors. This is why the law only serves the wealthy, they see the wealthy as less criminal than the proles. The laws surrounding religion and homosexuality (specifically discrimination because of) are a mess. We are now in the position of having to commit perjury to avoid being challenged on these grounds. For some, that is just another personal infringement of liberty and has a greater effect than the alleged discrimination. Of course the lawyers would not see it like that. Surprise surprise.Thorodin said:
grumbledoak said:
What a lovely society these lawyers are creating for us. Tell the truth and some scumbag and his even more scummy lawyers will sue you.
That's the point. The law is created by lawyers, with lawyers and for lawyers. There is more money paid for appeal hearings than initial hearings, and heard before 'eminent' lawyers. This all serves to enhance the mystique around the cadre. The greater the wriggle room built into the statute the greater the law serves its servants - and their successors. This is why the law only serves the wealthy, they see the wealthy as less criminal than the proles. The laws surrounding religion and homosexuality (specifically discrimination because of) are a mess. We are now in the position of having to commit perjury to avoid being challenged on these grounds. For some, that is just another personal infringement of liberty and has a greater effect than the alleged discrimination. Of course the lawyers would not see it like that. Surprise surprise.We're living in a time where law is being forced on us from above by politicians, lawyers and special interests that can pay to get their way. It's having a disastrous impact on our liberty.
supersingle said:
Thorodin said:
grumbledoak said:
What a lovely society these lawyers are creating for us. Tell the truth and some scumbag and his even more scummy lawyers will sue you.
That's the point. The law is created by lawyers, with lawyers and for lawyers. There is more money paid for appeal hearings than initial hearings, and heard before 'eminent' lawyers. This all serves to enhance the mystique around the cadre. The greater the wriggle room built into the statute the greater the law serves its servants - and their successors. This is why the law only serves the wealthy, they see the wealthy as less criminal than the proles. The laws surrounding religion and homosexuality (specifically discrimination because of) are a mess. We are now in the position of having to commit perjury to avoid being challenged on these grounds. For some, that is just another personal infringement of liberty and has a greater effect than the alleged discrimination. Of course the lawyers would not see it like that. Surprise surprise.We're living in a time where law is being forced on us from above by politicians, lawyers and special interests that can pay to get their way. It's having a disastrous impact on our liberty.
You have to wonder at the mentality of society sometimes.
It's crazy that someone who knows they cannot work a Saturday applies for a job involving Saturday working.
It's even crazier that a business cannot reject that someone because they cannot work a Saturday when the job requires them to do so.
It's even even crazier that an employment tribunal would uphold this as a case of religious discrimination when the someone clearly applied for a job they could not undertake.
Common sense is something clearly lacking here and all involved with the exception of the employer should be truly ashamed of themselves.
This does not uphold discrimination legislation, it makes religious people more unemployable. It gives a warning to any potential employer not to employ religious people or even consider employing religious people.
It's crazy that someone who knows they cannot work a Saturday applies for a job involving Saturday working.
It's even crazier that a business cannot reject that someone because they cannot work a Saturday when the job requires them to do so.
It's even even crazier that an employment tribunal would uphold this as a case of religious discrimination when the someone clearly applied for a job they could not undertake.
Common sense is something clearly lacking here and all involved with the exception of the employer should be truly ashamed of themselves.
This does not uphold discrimination legislation, it makes religious people more unemployable. It gives a warning to any potential employer not to employ religious people or even consider employing religious people.
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