Is the USA in decline? A land of materialists and fakes?
Discussion
fblm said:
Murcielago_Boy said:
...perhaps I just haven't spent enough time away from the coasts...
You could be on to something there. I've lived in Manhattan and Detroit and visited Miami countless times but the only places I really want to go back to are Colorado and Montana. I don't think anyone in those places knows, or gives a fvck, who Kim Kardasian is.Matt Harper said:
REALIST123 said:
I just wish the USA would realise, as a nation, that it isn't always right and doesn't have the right to impose its views on the rest of the planet.
I could not agree more, with this statement. I find the USA fascinating. My parents lived there from 1981 to 1999, I have cousins there (from GI bride) and my brother emigrated to Boston in 1991. We've had many holidays there, and hope to visit again soon (even after seeing Vegas up close and personal).
Everyone should visit it. All of it! There are so many contrasts/conundrums/compromises...all human life is there.
As for decline, that's been a theme of many plays, books, artwork, music and more for generations. It's part of the human condition it seems. There are many materialistic people, many fakes, and also many genuine folk who believe in the 'American way' apple pie and motherhood.
Esseesse said:
You're allowed to own a handgun? Less restrictive than the rest of the UK.
As a rule, no, you're not allowed to own a handgun. Unless police, judiciary etc. No idea where you got that from.Edited by Esseesse on Monday 29th June 15:40
It's just as restrictive - in reality, likely more so.
fblm said:
You could be on to something there. I've lived in Manhattan and Detroit and visited Miami countless times but the only places I really want to go back to are Colorado and Montana. I don't think anyone in those places knows, or gives a fvck, who Kim Kardasian is.
Colorado and Montana, are by far the best states.I think it's important to remember that America is massive - having lived in Manhattan and also spent time in LA nothing prepared me for how different Texas would be, which is where I now spend a lot of time. Whilst I recognise some of the things Murcielago_Boy pointed out I still feel America has a lot to offer - so much so that I can see myself moving to somewhere like Dallas full time in the near future.
One thing I would say though is that the country feels A LOT more divided than the UK, whilst there's a lot of flaws in our welfare system I would hate to see true poverty on my doorstep on a daily basis (that's based on first world poverty, not third world before I get hung up for that comment).
One thing I would say though is that the country feels A LOT more divided than the UK, whilst there's a lot of flaws in our welfare system I would hate to see true poverty on my doorstep on a daily basis (that's based on first world poverty, not third world before I get hung up for that comment).
5ohmustang said:
Most of all, I love I have the CHOICE to own guns or not. If you don't like it keep out of our business and f
k off.
I'm sure the families of the victims of Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook and so many, many others share your lovely views!k off.After all, it's not as though anywhere else in the world manages to survive without semi-automatic penis substitutes, is it?
5ohmustang said:
Typical ignorant and uneducated response. I bet your a Michael Moore fan.
Go on then... Educate me. What aspects of the widespread access to totally unnecessary firearms in the US makes American school children less likely than their European counterparts to be gunned down by a nutter?
Shotguns and rifles for hunting are fair enough, but handguns? No sane individual in a civilised country has any need whatsoever for a handgun.
The Don of Croy said:
Pistol shooting is still an Olympic discipline. Why would a sane individual need a javelin?
OK, let's set aside a microscopic percentage of the population who have a use for .22 calibre target pistols. I somehow doubt that many of the macho, gun-toting NRA cohorts have them as their weapons of choice.Kermit power said:
What aspects of the widespread access to totally unnecessary firearms in the US makes American school children less likely than their European counterparts to be gunned down by a nutter?
I appreciate the topic is almost impossible to discuss rationally but the number of privately owned guns per capita in the US is only 2 to 3 times higher than such inhospitable war zones as Germany, France, Canada, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland. Whilst if there were no guns at all obviously school shootings would be rare to non existant but that horse long since left the stable. Perhaps the real question is what is it about the US specifically that makes kids go crazy when they don't elsewhere? If access to guns were the cause why doesn't everywhere else suffer similar tragedys albeit less frequently? 5ohmustang said:
Typical ignorant and uneducated response. I bet your a Michael Moore fan.
If you're going to call somebody uneducated it would help your case if you understood some basic English, like the difference between your and you're. Otherwise you come over as a bit err.... uneducated.5ohmustang said:
fblm said:
You could be on to something there. I've lived in Manhattan and Detroit and visited Miami countless times but the only places I really want to go back to are Colorado and Montana. I don't think anyone in those places knows, or gives a fvck, who Kim Kardasian is.
Colorado and Montana, are by far the best states.http://www.landsofamerica.com/montana/
Minemapper said:
The gun thing. Oh the gun thing. Rational and logical people lose their minds when talking about the gun thing. Scary how well the NRA has done their mind wash on the population.
5ohmustang said:
Most of all, I love I have the CHOICE to own guns or not. If you don't like it keep out of our business and fk off.
Congratulations on going full native. k off.fblm said:
Kermit power said:
What aspects of the widespread access to totally unnecessary firearms in the US makes American school children less likely than their European counterparts to be gunned down by a nutter?
I appreciate the topic is almost impossible to discuss rationally but the number of privately owned guns per capita in the US is only 2 to 3 times higher than such inhospitable war zones as Germany, France, Canada, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland. Whilst if there were no guns at all obviously school shootings would be rare to non existant but that horse long since left the stable. Perhaps the real question is what is it about the US specifically that makes kids go crazy when they don't elsewhere? If access to guns were the cause why doesn't everywhere else suffer similar tragedys albeit less frequently? Only the US seems to have that unique gung-ho, "prize if from my cold, dead hands" sort of attitude to having firearms. Other nations view guns (and I'd suggest that whilst the Swiss will have loads of automatic weapons at home courtesy of their unusual approach to staffing the military, the count in the other countries mentioned will overwhelmingly be hunting rifles and shotguns) as tools for hunting and the like. Only the Americans seem to view gun ownership as a be all and end all of their national freedom. Strange people.
Kermit power said:
Only the Americans seem to view gun ownership as a be all and end all of their national freedom. Strange people.
I don't think that's a fair characterisation. I lived in the US a total of 6 years and don't know anyone that would share that view. In a country of 300m+ its unfair to tar everyone with the idiotic opinions of the NRA-tards. fblm said:
Kermit power said:
Only the Americans seem to view gun ownership as a be all and end all of their national freedom. Strange people.
I don't think that's a fair characterisation. I lived in the US a total of 6 years and don't know anyone that would share that view. In a country of 300m+ its unfair to tar everyone with the idiotic opinions of the NRA-tards. Kermit power said:
Possibly so, but five million of those are actually NRA members, and I'd assume there are plenty more nutters who aren't signed up members... I'm sure there are plenty of decent people there, but that doesn't take away the huge rate of gun crime compared to any other major developed nation.
You seem to have made a bit of a switcheroo from gun ownership to gun crime as being the cause of your ire.Some would argue that it's because of the gun crime that they choose to arm themselves - a leveling of the playing field, if you will.
You clearly have very strong feelings about this, but you are also a little hysterical, if I may be so bold. You have made your feelings about the lunacy of Americans in general pretty clear, so it really does beg the question, "Why do you care?". Is it just your overall dismay at the tragedy of humanity, or do you just like to tell other folks how to behave - despite it not really being any of your business?
Matt Harper said:
Kermit power said:
Possibly so, but five million of those are actually NRA members, and I'd assume there are plenty more nutters who aren't signed up members... I'm sure there are plenty of decent people there, but that doesn't take away the huge rate of gun crime compared to any other major developed nation.
You seem to have made a bit of a switcheroo from gun ownership to gun crime as being the cause of your ire.Some would argue that it's because of the gun crime that they choose to arm themselves - a leveling of the playing field, if you will.
You clearly have very strong feelings about this, but you are also a little hysterical, if I may be so bold. You have made your feelings about the lunacy of Americans in general pretty clear, so it really does beg the question, "Why do you care?". Is it just your overall dismay at the tragedy of humanity, or do you just like to tell other folks how to behave - despite it not really being any of your business?
Have you ever watched the news on an American network? I once watched a broadcast which finished the domestic news and then went "and now for international news... The US ambassador in Rome...."
Their insularity and their disconnect with the feelings and opinions of others would be fine if they actually kept themselves to themselves, but they don't. They exercise their economic, diplomatic (arguably an oxymoron) and military might on a whim to try and force others to their way of thinking, and they've caused hundreds of thousands of deaths and left the world a much worse place along the way.
You could argue, given the UK's Imperial history, that this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, but for all that there are black moments in that history, a nation of our size could never have run such a large chunk of the world without being far more delicate about it so as to establish at least an element of tacit consent.
Unfortunately, the power of the US is such that they don't have to show any sort of subtlety or restraint. They can just wade in with their size 12 boots and f
k the consequences, because by and large, the consequences are something which are going to happen to other people.That's what annoys me about Americans so much. That individual sense of entitlement becomes the national psyche, and that national psyche gives successive US governments the sense that they can roughshod over others because they're only very rarely going to be held accountable for it by the electorate.
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