US/NATO/Nordic Alliance vs Russia
Discussion
pete a said:
Octoposse said:
I spent much of the 1980’s in forests ‘somewhere in Germany’ looking Eastwards, expecting the Russians to come at any moment (OK, poetic licence – it was mainly swimming galas and cleaning stuff, but the overall point holds true). Being young and possibly even more stupid than the average ISIS recruit nowdays, we were mildly excited by the prospect – despite knowing full well we were utterly and completely f
ked if they did. If I recall correctly, the MILAN gunners got one practice shot a year, and our Nuclear/Biological/Chemical ‘proof’ APCs leaked like sieves in the rain.
I was slightly older/wiser when I had tiny bit-part walk-on parts in two itsy bitsy little wars. Probably got mild PTSD (never been diagnosed/treated, but manifests itself in nothing more onerous than the occasional sob sparked by obscure reminders).
Absolutely horrific beyond words. Not so much for the soldiers – although it can be pretty grim for some at times. But for those ‘unfortunate’ families, children, ordinary people, caught up in it all – horrific.
At bedtime, in his powder-blue attic room with pictures of Captain Barnacle and dinosaurs, my five year old snuggles up for re-assurance about swimming lessons, learning to ride a bike, an invitation (or not) to x’s party, the Lego Ninjago he’s seen in a shop window. The pit of horror and despair I’d feel in a cellar, feeling the vibration of artillery shells, wondering who’s dead out there in the smashed school, where the boy’s mum is, did that last mortar shell hit the bread queue where his grandmother is . . . distracting the child with talk of ‘what we’ll do next year’. And that’s mild compared with the situation multiplied several million times over in Syria, Ukraine, etc.
That’s why I want an ‘grown up’ and engaged relationship with Russia, not one that makes it appears that ‘games theory’ shapes our government’s actions as much as it does Greece’s hugely successful negotiations with its creditors, and where ordinary Ukrainians and others are expendible.
You couldn’t begin to measure the human misery that would flow from even the most limited of armed conflicts in populous Europe.
Best and most mature post I've read on pistonheads in a long time.ked if they did. If I recall correctly, the MILAN gunners got one practice shot a year, and our Nuclear/Biological/Chemical ‘proof’ APCs leaked like sieves in the rain.I was slightly older/wiser when I had tiny bit-part walk-on parts in two itsy bitsy little wars. Probably got mild PTSD (never been diagnosed/treated, but manifests itself in nothing more onerous than the occasional sob sparked by obscure reminders).
Absolutely horrific beyond words. Not so much for the soldiers – although it can be pretty grim for some at times. But for those ‘unfortunate’ families, children, ordinary people, caught up in it all – horrific.
At bedtime, in his powder-blue attic room with pictures of Captain Barnacle and dinosaurs, my five year old snuggles up for re-assurance about swimming lessons, learning to ride a bike, an invitation (or not) to x’s party, the Lego Ninjago he’s seen in a shop window. The pit of horror and despair I’d feel in a cellar, feeling the vibration of artillery shells, wondering who’s dead out there in the smashed school, where the boy’s mum is, did that last mortar shell hit the bread queue where his grandmother is . . . distracting the child with talk of ‘what we’ll do next year’. And that’s mild compared with the situation multiplied several million times over in Syria, Ukraine, etc.
That’s why I want an ‘grown up’ and engaged relationship with Russia, not one that makes it appears that ‘games theory’ shapes our government’s actions as much as it does Greece’s hugely successful negotiations with its creditors, and where ordinary Ukrainians and others are expendible.
You couldn’t begin to measure the human misery that would flow from even the most limited of armed conflicts in populous Europe.
skyrover said:
Unfortunately it makes the assumption that Russia will come to the table as a grown up.
Volodya may be psychotic, but I'm sure he'd like to be able to spend some of his illgotten billions; it's hard to do that if all of the western world has been redeveloped into a smoking vitrified carpark.Zod said:
Scoobman said:
So your starting comment ``I find it tiresome´´ is not patronising?
Ok
I too think you are talking bks.
You think I am talking bks
So I guess we agree to disagree.
You made the claim that quality of life is higher in Germany, despite equivalent GDP per capita levels. Try to justify your claim.Ok
I too think you are talking b
ks.You think I am talking b
ksSo I guess we agree to disagree.
Edited by Scoobman on Thursday 2nd July 20:04
Mojocvh said:
Zod said:
Scoobman said:
So your starting comment ``I find it tiresome´´ is not patronising?
Ok
I too think you are talking bks.
You think I am talking bks
So I guess we agree to disagree.
You made the claim that quality of life is higher in Germany, despite equivalent GDP per capita levels. Try to justify your claim.Ok
I too think you are talking b
ks.You think I am talking b
ksSo I guess we agree to disagree.
Edited by Scoobman on Thursday 2nd July 20:04
It never works on you, I suppose.
AreOut said:
they hope Westerners won't give up their comfortable way of life over few baltic states, russian people don't live so comfortably and have less to lose in a potential conflict
I dont know, i think Russia enjoys the pleasures we do in the west. They have their social media VK which is just as narcissistic as Facebook.There are plenty of things to spend your rubles on out there too having seen that a lot of car companies do well there. Id like to think the majority of comfortable Russians regardless of how linked they might be to the state will not want to let go of what's on offer in peacetime.
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