Another Tunisian Attack - Sousse
Discussion
deltaevo16 said:
onyx39 said:
Reuters saying Britain's among the dead.
Will the government do something now??
They will be a large wringing off heads, thats about it.Will the government do something now??
onyx39 said:
Reuters saying Britain's among the dead.
Will the government do something now??
Oh yes ,Government will make hand wringing statements and hope it dies down till the next time.Will the government do something now??
More seriously,what do you think they should do ?
Unless we want to go to war with Isis and put troops in I don't see what else we can do.
Does the UK,Europe and the U.S. really have the appetite for this ?
Who will we be fighting ?
As I understand it the Sunni / Wahabi Saudis are part funding Isis as a hedge against the Shia/ Hezbollah Iranians.
All fighting proxy wars.
I
avinalarf said:
Oh yes ,Government will make hand wringing statements and hope it dies down till the next time.
More seriously,what do you think they should do ?
Unless we want to go to war with Isis and put troops in I don't see what else we can do.
Does the UK,Europe and the U.S. really have the appetite for this ?
Who will we be fighting ?
As I understand it the Sunni / Wahabi Saudis are part funding Isis as a hedge against the Shia/ Hezbollah Iranians.
All fighting proxy wars.
I
Let's face it, nothing of merit / note will happen unless a serious Islamic terrorist incident occurs on U.S. soil - and even then, without a Saddam, Osama, Zarquawi (sp) figure-head to point the finger at I'm not sure U.S. citizens have the appetite for direct action given the number of stars & stripes wooden boxes flown home in the last 14 years. (Boston marathon a case in point).More seriously,what do you think they should do ?
Unless we want to go to war with Isis and put troops in I don't see what else we can do.
Does the UK,Europe and the U.S. really have the appetite for this ?
Who will we be fighting ?
As I understand it the Sunni / Wahabi Saudis are part funding Isis as a hedge against the Shia/ Hezbollah Iranians.
All fighting proxy wars.
I
Legend83 said:
Let's face it, nothing of merit / note will happen unless a serious Islamic terrorist incident occurs on U.S. soil - and even then, without a Saddam, Osama, Zarquawi (sp) figure-head to point the finger at I'm not sure U.S. citizens have the appetite for direct action given the number of stars & stripes wooden boxes flown home in the last 14 years. (Boston marathon a case in point).
A bomb at a shopping mall in every US City would get their attention.egor110 said:
How long before a red sea resort hotel gets hit.
Already happened about 10 years ago. I was there about a week after it happened. Steel blockades everywhere, army people doing searches etc. We stopped in traffic outside one hotel where a car bomb had gone off & the front of the building was missing.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/47094...
northwest monkey said:
egor110 said:
How long before a red sea resort hotel gets hit.
Already happened about 10 years ago. I was there about a week after it happened. Steel blockades everywhere, army people doing searches etc. We stopped in traffic outside one hotel where a car bomb had gone off & the front of the building was missing.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/47094...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3725662.stm
Mermaid said:
Government should say to all these Islamic countries - we will not send our people to you, and you agree to keep yours on your shores (beaches).
This sounds like an eminently sensible approach to me. I have to say that I don't understand the attraction of holidaying in uncivilised African/Arabian crap holes when you can just as easily sit on a beach in Europe, North America or pretty much anywhere else. Why run the risk and why give these places your hard earned money? If they want to sustain a barbaric society then let them get on with it. Europe and the West in general needs to block all immigration from places like this, return all of the current crop of 'migrants' (illegal aliens) and offer to give assisted passage to anyone who wants to go there and stay there permanently.
SeeFive said:
My son in law is Tunisian. He came to England after Arab Spring. We spent a lot of time in the resorts and in his home town El Kef, up in the hills towards the Algerian border. It was a good country, peaceful except for petty crime and the punishments under Ben Ali's hard line rule were severe for the most minor transgression. Life was hard, the police were corrupt and everyone was in some fear of them, especially the young but it was a peaceful existence. The better off looked after the poor quite well, for example taxi drivers would always chip into the pot of a beggar walking between traffic in towns, and the drivers were by no means wealthy.
Post Arab Spring , the people all suddenly had "rights", and many had weapons but with little knowledge of what that freedom and capability meant. Hence life became very different with groups and individuals raiding other towns at will. In his words, the country is now f
ked. Everybody is out for themselves with massive escalation in prices for staple foods like tomatoes which were only a few millemes for a kilo, which soon became many dinars per kilo as they could be sold to Libya at that price, and the farmers lost all notion of selling them to locals at anything except that price. As he says, the general population of Tunisia is not too intelligent, and from scraping a living under the old regime with a barely affordable lifestyle, life has become even harder with many people forced to turn to criminal activity to live. The extremists always existed but now have more scope to do their work and people are seemingly happy to join them for the necessary dinars.
Back in the day, some of the roads we travelled were heavily policed, and on a two hour journey we would be stopped 4 or 5 times with the police looking for drugs being run between Algeria and Tunis. Now if you are stopped, it will not be the police, more likely bandits whit some dire outcomes. The place is just not safe now in many areas outside of the tourist belt.
10 years ago I would advocate Tunisia as a place to go to experience a simple, peaceful and very old fashioned lifestyle away from the tourist areas with very peaceful and welcoming people. Until this year I would still have hit Hammamet and the like. Now, I would not go anywhere near the place. That is what regime change has meant for them, poor souls.
So these acts by exremists are terrible, my heart goes out to the victims and families, but the way I could safely visit their country is long gone before today. Tunisian people will be very upset by this, tourism is a massive contribution to their economy and this can only make things worse for them.
A very interesting post, although I have to say, that from an outsiders perspective I already had suspicions of what you confirm .Post Arab Spring , the people all suddenly had "rights", and many had weapons but with little knowledge of what that freedom and capability meant. Hence life became very different with groups and individuals raiding other towns at will. In his words, the country is now f
ked. Everybody is out for themselves with massive escalation in prices for staple foods like tomatoes which were only a few millemes for a kilo, which soon became many dinars per kilo as they could be sold to Libya at that price, and the farmers lost all notion of selling them to locals at anything except that price. As he says, the general population of Tunisia is not too intelligent, and from scraping a living under the old regime with a barely affordable lifestyle, life has become even harder with many people forced to turn to criminal activity to live. The extremists always existed but now have more scope to do their work and people are seemingly happy to join them for the necessary dinars.Back in the day, some of the roads we travelled were heavily policed, and on a two hour journey we would be stopped 4 or 5 times with the police looking for drugs being run between Algeria and Tunis. Now if you are stopped, it will not be the police, more likely bandits whit some dire outcomes. The place is just not safe now in many areas outside of the tourist belt.
10 years ago I would advocate Tunisia as a place to go to experience a simple, peaceful and very old fashioned lifestyle away from the tourist areas with very peaceful and welcoming people. Until this year I would still have hit Hammamet and the like. Now, I would not go anywhere near the place. That is what regime change has meant for them, poor souls.
So these acts by exremists are terrible, my heart goes out to the victims and families, but the way I could safely visit their country is long gone before today. Tunisian people will be very upset by this, tourism is a massive contribution to their economy and this can only make things worse for them.
The fact remains, that long term,(aside the victims and their families) it will those ordinary people in the tourist industry in the Arab world at large which will suffer the worst from this insane attrocity.
SeeFive said:
My son in law is Tunisian. He came to England after Arab Spring. We spent a lot of time in the resorts and in his home town El Kef, up in the hills towards the Algerian border. It was a good country, peaceful except for petty crime and the punishments under Ben Ali's hard line rule were severe for the most minor transgression. Life was hard, the police were corrupt and everyone was in some fear of them, especially the young but it was a peaceful existence. The better off looked after the poor quite well, for example taxi drivers would always chip into the pot of a beggar walking between traffic in towns, and the drivers were by no means wealthy.
Post Arab Spring , the people all suddenly had "rights", and many had weapons but with little knowledge of what that freedom and capability meant. Hence life became very different with groups and individuals raiding other towns at will. In his words, the country is now fked. Everybody is out for themselves with massive escalation in prices for staple foods like tomatoes which were only a few millemes for a kilo, which soon became many dinars per kilo as they could be sold to Libya at that price, and the farmers lost all notion of selling them to locals at anything except that price. As he says, the general population of Tunisia is not too intelligent, and from scraping a living under the old regime with a barely affordable lifestyle, life has become even harder with many people forced to turn to criminal activity to live. The extremists always existed but now have more scope to do their work and people are seemingly happy to join them for the necessary dinars.
Back in the day, some of the roads we travelled were heavily policed, and on a two hour journey we would be stopped 4 or 5 times with the police looking for drugs being run between Algeria and Tunis. Now if you are stopped, it will not be the police, more likely bandits whit some dire outcomes. The place is just not safe now in many areas outside of the tourist belt.
10 years ago I would advocate Tunisia as a place to go to experience a simple, peaceful and very old fashioned lifestyle away from the tourist areas with very peaceful and welcoming people. Until this year I would still have hit Hammamet and the like. Now, I would not go anywhere near the place. That is what regime change has meant for them, poor souls.
So these acts by exremists are terrible, my heart goes out to the victims and families, but the way I could safely visit their country is long gone before today. Tunisian people will be very upset by this, tourism is a massive contribution to their economy and this can only make things worse for them.
Much the impression I got. The urban areas were certainly well educated though. We went for dinner with a local guy in his early twenties at his mates restaurant. They were all university graduates with impressive degrees, saving to move to Europe and work (legally) as doctors and other professions. He was working selling boat trips on the beach at the time. Post Arab Spring , the people all suddenly had "rights", and many had weapons but with little knowledge of what that freedom and capability meant. Hence life became very different with groups and individuals raiding other towns at will. In his words, the country is now f
ked. Everybody is out for themselves with massive escalation in prices for staple foods like tomatoes which were only a few millemes for a kilo, which soon became many dinars per kilo as they could be sold to Libya at that price, and the farmers lost all notion of selling them to locals at anything except that price. As he says, the general population of Tunisia is not too intelligent, and from scraping a living under the old regime with a barely affordable lifestyle, life has become even harder with many people forced to turn to criminal activity to live. The extremists always existed but now have more scope to do their work and people are seemingly happy to join them for the necessary dinars.Back in the day, some of the roads we travelled were heavily policed, and on a two hour journey we would be stopped 4 or 5 times with the police looking for drugs being run between Algeria and Tunis. Now if you are stopped, it will not be the police, more likely bandits whit some dire outcomes. The place is just not safe now in many areas outside of the tourist belt.
10 years ago I would advocate Tunisia as a place to go to experience a simple, peaceful and very old fashioned lifestyle away from the tourist areas with very peaceful and welcoming people. Until this year I would still have hit Hammamet and the like. Now, I would not go anywhere near the place. That is what regime change has meant for them, poor souls.
So these acts by exremists are terrible, my heart goes out to the victims and families, but the way I could safely visit their country is long gone before today. Tunisian people will be very upset by this, tourism is a massive contribution to their economy and this can only make things worse for them.
I remember them being quite proud of their comparatively liberal treatment of women for the region too.
If your idea of a holiday is an all inclusive endless sunbathing session fuelled by poolside beer,then yes not much point in going outside Europe.
If you were interested in the Atlas mountains, deserts, oasis, all manner of wildlife, cave dwelling bedouin, buildings from the Roman empire, a fascinating mix of Muslim and western culture and some of the most hospitable people on earth, then Tunisia was always a favourite of mine (closely followed by Morocco).
,
The education system kind of worked in some way. For those with ability, they did their exams at school and would receive a scholarship to uni. They would take their exams, and with good results would be guaranteed a job inside 3 years by the government, receiving a small allowance until that happened. For others, they left school and made their way, and these were by far the majority. Sure there were bright individuals there, but in the agricultural areas I spent time in were largely outweighed by those either waiting for their job, or with no opportunity other than what they could create themselves having missed out on uni. But that was life under Ben Ali and was accepted given the option of doing hard time if a less legal route was chosen.
So now what? No fear of the rules or corrupt police, the price of life spiralling out of control for basic sustenance, a more capitalist approach compared to the communial times and essentially, you have something bordering on anarchy. During Arab Spring, laddo and his mates tooled up to protect his local shopkeeps premises from armed yobs invading from other towns. Would that happen today, given that the view is that the shops are shafting the locals with their prices?
The whole culture of the people has changed for the worse. Yes, many of them are still the same welcoming, generous people of before but there are so many have nots now trying to carve out a life that it is simply a far more dangerous place to be - even for a Tunisian. The place has a feel of suspicion and risk today, which is such a shame.
Art0ir said:
Much the impression I got. The urban areas were certainly well educated though. We went for dinner with a local guy in his early twenties at his mates restaurant. They were all university graduates with impressive degrees, saving to move to Europe and work (legally) as doctors and other professions. He was working selling boat trips on the beach at the time.
I remember them being quite proud of their comparatively liberal treatment of women for the region too.
If your idea of a holiday is an all inclusive endless sunbathing session fuelled by poolside beer,then yes not much point in going outside Europe.
If you were interested in the Atlas mountains, deserts, oasis, all manner of wildlife, cave dwelling bedouin, buildings from the Roman empire, a fascinating mix of Muslim and western culture and some of the most hospitable people on earth, then Tunisia was always a favourite of mine (closely followed by Morocco).
Absolutely agree. Among the family / friends in El Kef, there was a good mix of people. The elders were farmers, government figures, laddo's dad was the Tunisian equivalent of Arthur Scargill, doctors etc. Among the kids there was a similar variety - chemists, doctors, shopkeepers, louage owner/drivers and a lot of jobless MTV watchers wanting it badly. The wider town had far more of the latter.I remember them being quite proud of their comparatively liberal treatment of women for the region too.
If your idea of a holiday is an all inclusive endless sunbathing session fuelled by poolside beer,then yes not much point in going outside Europe.
If you were interested in the Atlas mountains, deserts, oasis, all manner of wildlife, cave dwelling bedouin, buildings from the Roman empire, a fascinating mix of Muslim and western culture and some of the most hospitable people on earth, then Tunisia was always a favourite of mine (closely followed by Morocco).
The education system kind of worked in some way. For those with ability, they did their exams at school and would receive a scholarship to uni. They would take their exams, and with good results would be guaranteed a job inside 3 years by the government, receiving a small allowance until that happened. For others, they left school and made their way, and these were by far the majority. Sure there were bright individuals there, but in the agricultural areas I spent time in were largely outweighed by those either waiting for their job, or with no opportunity other than what they could create themselves having missed out on uni. But that was life under Ben Ali and was accepted given the option of doing hard time if a less legal route was chosen.
So now what? No fear of the rules or corrupt police, the price of life spiralling out of control for basic sustenance, a more capitalist approach compared to the communial times and essentially, you have something bordering on anarchy. During Arab Spring, laddo and his mates tooled up to protect his local shopkeeps premises from armed yobs invading from other towns. Would that happen today, given that the view is that the shops are shafting the locals with their prices?
The whole culture of the people has changed for the worse. Yes, many of them are still the same welcoming, generous people of before but there are so many have nots now trying to carve out a life that it is simply a far more dangerous place to be - even for a Tunisian. The place has a feel of suspicion and risk today, which is such a shame.
CaptainSlow said:
Not at all. Anyone going over there for a relaxing break must be mad. Earlier this week I had someone saying how much of a bargain it is to go there, not surprising really.
Other half's father suggested having a big family get together in Egypt not so long ago. I said flatly that I wouldn't go - too dangerous and I have no desire to funnel any of my hard earned into the sttier parts of the planet. 
AJL308 said:
CaptainSlow said:
Not at all. Anyone going over there for a relaxing break must be mad. Earlier this week I had someone saying how much of a bargain it is to go there, not surprising really.
Other half's father suggested having a big family get together in Egypt not so long ago. I said flatly that I wouldn't go - too dangerous and I have no desire to funnel any of my hard earned into the sttier parts of the planet. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff