Another Tunisian Attack - Sousse

[AngryPartsBloke]

Willy Nilly said:

I just dip in and oot of this thread so it may have already been said. Us going in and bombing people won't help and will probably just make it worse. Why not invite these people to come to the negotiating table?

Because then you Legitimise them. Beside there is no way to negotiate with them I read a quote somewhere from the Us Civil war, I can't quite recal it but to paraphrase (quite heavily probably) 'Between two groups of people with conflicting views who wish to make opposing worlds I see no other course but violence'

[Mermaid]

MikeT66 said:

100%. No matter the doctrine, there is no place in a progressive society for religious schooling.

Get rid of it now, stop all funding, and get proper integration going.

Leave your religion behind when you leave home.

[Eric Mc]

MikeT66 said:

100%. No matter the doctrine, there is no place in a progressive society for religious schooling.

Get rid of it now, stop all funding, and get proper integration going.

And yet is there a place in a progressive society for the repression of ideas, ideology and human thought?

I believe a progressive society is a free society - and that means freedom for things I don't agree with, as well as freedom for what I do believe in.

[vetrof]

There is a difference between what you believe and what is taught as fact in formal education.

[Murph7355]

Asterix said:

There's a saying out here - 'The bigger the smile, the bigger the knife'.

They're ignorant, arrogant, stubborn and full of themselves.

Tough to negotiate with.

So that's Tony and his cronies. What about ISIS?

[Murph7355]

Mermaid said:

Leave your religion behind when you leave home.

Doesn't that in itself need teaching? Ie tolerance to other religious viewpoints. ..

[Ali G]

WinstonWolf said:

968 said:

Boydie88 said:

Is it not sunni vs shia? Although, both known as Muslims, they aren't fond of each other it would seem so to put them together and just say ISIS are slaughtering themselves, is just wrong.

No, it isn't just sunni vs shia. It's extremely complex with different tribes/sects fighting against Isis, not just Shias. Apart from anything else Shia's are Muslim too. The countries most affected by terrorist atrocities like Pakistan and Afghanistan are largely Sunni Muslim countries.

You can understand why the average man in the street thinks Islam, Christianity, religion is a bit fked up.

If there was a god and he really was omnipotent don't you think he'd sort this st out once and for all?

He's god, he's all powerful, he can be rid of an entire continent just as easily as he created it...

Better.

[MikeT66]

Eric Mc said:

MikeT66 said:

100%. No matter the doctrine, there is no place in a progressive society for religious schooling.

Get rid of it now, stop all funding, and get proper integration going.

And yet is there a place in a progressive society for the repression of ideas, ideology and human thought?

I believe a progressive society is a free society - and that means freedom for things I don't agree with, as well as freedom for what I do believe in.

It's the dogma that is the problem, as I see it - and I speak as someone who is (and I may get shot at here) pretty spiritual.

Getting taught out-dated dogmatic rules, be it how women are treated, the belief that sexuality is a dangerous and evil thing, that science is in direct contention with God, is wrong and has no place... IMHO.

I'll copy one of my favourite quotes here, that I've posted elsewhere...

Karl Popper – German Scientist-Philosopher
“Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them...We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.”

Religion is, in my experience, largely intolerant- after all, every religion believes (as it must) that they are right and the others wrong (apart from Buddhism - but that's not strictly as religion as such and therefore one I have more respect for), and that centuries old rules and thought must still be adhered to in the 21st century. That alone is not progressive, as I see it.

I used to attend a fairly evangelical church - and I've never met such a group of finger-pointing, hypocritical and judgmental people - even the old ladies attending the nearby Anglican church were dismissed as "not proper Christians - they're not like us." Children were being brought up in this environment - one I didn't think was healthy.

So, no - get rid of them all. Religious education should, if it needs to be taught (and I think it should in a normal secular environment) it should cover ALL beliefs.

[WinkleHoff]

One Arabs thought about the Arabs (Muslims)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Xve4O4rF0

Until Islam becomes truly progressive we will always have a worldwide problem.

[blindswelledrat]

MikeT66 said:

Karl Popper – German Scientist-Philosopher
“Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them...We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.”

Religion is, in my experience, largely intolerant- after all, every religion believes (as it must) that they are right and the others wrong (apart from Buddhism - but that's not strictly as religion as such and therefore one I have more respect for), and that centuries old rules and thought must still be adhered to in the 21st century. That alone is not progressive, as I see it.

I used to attend a fairly evangelical church - and I've never met such a group of finger-pointing, hypocritical and judgmental people - even the old ladies attending the nearby Anglican church were dismissed as "not proper Christians - they're not like us." Children were being brought up in this environment - one I didn't think was healthy.

So, no - get rid of them all. Religious education should, if it needs to be taught (and I think it should in a normal secular environment) it should cover ALL beliefs.

In principle I agree with you.
In reality, though, your lecture utterly ignores the billions of tolerant Muslims and Christians throughout the world.
You talk as though every religious person is an unevolved extremist and at some point you forgot that they are the minority and in fact it is actually a pointless speech because no normal person tolerates intolerant religious whatever their belief.

[Mermaid]

PM statement in the Commons.

Provide security forces with more resources

Deal with security threat at source - bombing in Iraq & Syria

Take on radical narrative, stand up for our values - identify radicalisation

[e39darren]

NicD said:

Aristotle:
"Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” ..

The prophet Muhammad :
"Give me a child until she is 7 and I will make her my bride. "

Edited for you

[croyde]

The trouble with this country is that we have become soft. The thin edge of the wedge was when those in charge started worrying about upsetting minorities like the banning of the Nativity Play at my child's school. Even some of the Muslim parents didn't understand that.

Printing of all benefit forms in every language under the sun.

Imagining trying to claim benefit in Iraq, I can't imagine that they would have people especially trained to help Brits It's bad enough trying to report your motorcycle stolen in some provincial French town.

I don't think that the Saudi authorities were too upset that the 4am call to prayer would always wake me, an athiest, every morning in my hovel of a motel, when I was working out there.

My mate in another room even had a severe telling off from the religious police for sun bathing on his own balcony in shorts. Someone had spotted him from another building and had reported him.

Their country their rules. I'm absolutely fine with this but for some reason our leaders and liberal councils bend over backwards to appease the minority and the minority know this, thus they take the pee.

Sharia law areas, radical mullahs etc

At the current rate the minority will soon become the majority and they'll be happy to find that we have already changed most of our laws and customs so that the change, for us, won't be too upsetting.

[TTwiggy]

grand cherokee said:

don't bother with local security guards - they are either in the pay of the terrorists or run away at the first sign of trouble

can't say I blame them for running away - they are not going to put their lives on the line for infidels/unbelievers

that's why the 'circuit' has contractors guarding hotels/buildings in muslim hot spots

I read that many hotel staff (all Muslim) formed a human shield and probably saved a lot of lives. So it seems that some Muslims do care about the non-believers.

[PoleDriver]

TTwiggy said:

I read that many hotel staff (all Muslim) formed a human shield and probably saved a lot of lives. So it seems that some Muslims do care about the goose that lays the golden eggs.

(edited by PoleDriver)

Fixed That For You

Edited by PoleDriver on Tuesday 30th June 10:33

In order to avoid any misunderstanding!

Edited by PoleDriver on Tuesday 30th June 10:34

[superkartracer]

Mermaid said:

PM statement in the Commons.

Provide security forces with more resources

Deal with security threat at source - bombing in Iraq & Syria

Take on radical narrative, stand up for our values - identify radicalisation

Yeah.. but they have been doing that for years, and the situation is worse then ever.

[Cheese Mechanic]

PoleDriver said:

TTwiggy said:

I read that many hotel staff (all Muslim) formed a human shield and probably saved a lot of lives. So it seems that some Muslims do care about the goose that lays the golden eggs.

FTFY

I don't think its balanced to be too cynical about it, its obvious from footage that a number of the Hotel workers put themselves at serious risk. They would know, once the first casualties had been suffered , that the impact on their livelihoods would be huge, yet they they still persued the murderer

I have never had to face off somebody with a gun, I have with a knife, and thats scary, so a gun? Takes guts.

[TTwiggy]

PoleDriver said:

TTwiggy said:

I read that many hotel staff (all Muslim) formed a human shield and probably saved a lot of lives. So it seems that some Muslims do care about the goose that lays the golden eggs.

FTFY

What a lovely sentiment. I assume that those servicemen and women who died in two World Wars were only motivated by being too lazy to learn German?

Also, I think that the ability to edit another person's posts is a really st idea.

[PoleDriver]

TTwiggy said:

Also, I think that the ability to edit another person's posts is a really st idea.

It saved me some typing time!

[stuart313]

Don't know if its been mentioned but has anyone watched Fitna? thats a pretty good take on matters, pity Geert Wilders wasn't taken a bit more seriously by the UK.