The National Barrier Asset
Discussion
I'm not convinced our current policy is really kind.
We are actively encouraging poor, desperate and often ignorant* people to make a very dangerous journey, usually by way of pouring a lot of money into the pockets of criminal gangs. Then they arrive in a continent that doesn't want them, where they have no legal right to be, huge cultural and language difficulties and are cut off from friends and family and stuck in a legal limbo for months on end.
This because we won't enforce the immigration and asylum laws we already have, or provide an obvious disincentive or even practical obstacle to breaking them.
That's not kindness, it's cowardice.
We are actively encouraging poor, desperate and often ignorant* people to make a very dangerous journey, usually by way of pouring a lot of money into the pockets of criminal gangs. Then they arrive in a continent that doesn't want them, where they have no legal right to be, huge cultural and language difficulties and are cut off from friends and family and stuck in a legal limbo for months on end.
This because we won't enforce the immigration and asylum laws we already have, or provide an obvious disincentive or even practical obstacle to breaking them.
That's not kindness, it's cowardice.
- I don't mean "ignorant" in a derogatory sense here as such, but I suspect many are literally woefully unaware of what they are letting themselves into. I have met people in Thailand, a relatively prosperous country by the standards of the region, who believe that you can just set up a noodle stall in Trafalgar Square like they do in Thailand and make 20 times the money. Would it be kind of me to buy such a person a one-way ticket to Heathrow and wish them luck?
Timmy40 said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Timmy40 said:
Er lets see, you stop the boat, something the RN routinely do, offload the passengers, sink the boat, repatriate the passengers. Not hard.
Repatriate them WHERE? The same goes for deporting them AFTER they have arrived. They aren't carrying Passports or ID. so where are you going to deport them too - back to France so they can try again?We're an island FFS. Controlling our borders, who enters and who leaves should not be rocket science.
None of that even addresses all the migrants that are travelling out of the ME overland, via Turkey.
TEKNOPUG said:
Do you have any idea how many vessels there are in the Med, every day? Or just how large the Med is? Even if you did manage to identify and intercept a boat, ascertain that it originated from Tunisia, do you think that the Tunisian government are going to be happy for a RN ship to simply moor up in Bizerte, Rades, Tazerka or Sousse and unload hundreds of people who aren't even Tunisian?!
So how do you think the issue of Somali pirates was tackled? What's your solution, do nothing? Have you got a better suggestion or do you think trying to stop them when they've got all the way to France is a great idea. TEKNOPUG said:
Do you have any idea how many vessels there are in the Med, every day? Or just how large the Med is? Even if you did manage to identify and intercept a boat, ascertain that it originated from Tunisia, do you think that the Tunisian government are going to be happy for a RN ship to simply moor up in Bizerte, Rades, Tazerka or Sousse and unload hundreds of people who aren't even Tunisian?!
I think the idea is that it would disuade attempts and in the longer term Tunisia won't be used as a departure point.With a lot of the posts on this thread people are getting too caught up in other people's posts.. sinking boats, returning people to where they came from, electrifying fences etc..
We shouldn't be asking why they want to come here, but why they want to leave their home in the first place?
Watching Panorama the other night, they had the episode re the missing school children in Africa, kidnapped by Boko Haram. No wonder people don't want to live in their own country, they are being killed, raped, tortured, starved & forced to do the most horrific things. Absolutely horrendous.
I don't profess to have the answer, or even want more people coming here, but we're never going to stop the stream of people unless their homeland is a place that they want to stay.
We shouldn't be asking why they want to come here, but why they want to leave their home in the first place?
Watching Panorama the other night, they had the episode re the missing school children in Africa, kidnapped by Boko Haram. No wonder people don't want to live in their own country, they are being killed, raped, tortured, starved & forced to do the most horrific things. Absolutely horrendous.
I don't profess to have the answer, or even want more people coming here, but we're never going to stop the stream of people unless their homeland is a place that they want to stay.
ikarl said:
With a lot of the posts on this thread people are getting too caught up in other people's posts.. sinking boats, returning people to where they came from, electrifying fences etc..
We shouldn't be asking why they want to come here, but why they want to leave their home in the first place?
Watching Panorama the other night, they had the episode re the missing school children in Africa, kidnapped by Boko Haram. No wonder people don't want to live in their own country, they are being killed, raped, tortured, starved & forced to do the most horrific things. Absolutely horrendous.
I don't profess to have the answer, or even want more people coming here, but we're never going to stop the stream of people unless their homeland is a place that they want to stay.
To quote a migrant speaking on the BBC last week, "A free house and benefits" is why they want to come here. We shouldn't be asking why they want to come here, but why they want to leave their home in the first place?
Watching Panorama the other night, they had the episode re the missing school children in Africa, kidnapped by Boko Haram. No wonder people don't want to live in their own country, they are being killed, raped, tortured, starved & forced to do the most horrific things. Absolutely horrendous.
I don't profess to have the answer, or even want more people coming here, but we're never going to stop the stream of people unless their homeland is a place that they want to stay.
Timmy40 said:
To quote a migrant speaking on the BBC last week, "A free house and benefits" is why they want to come here.
If that's the answer that ALL the migrants give, ok.. again, I still don't have the answer. Would they just walk the streets if they didn't get ahouse/benefits? would we see a massive increase in crime if they didn't get some support?Or, what can we do to help them get some form of safety/housing/job in their own country?
Greg66 said:
Scuffers said:
like I said before, what is your solution?
We could send them a selection of your posts in this and other threads. Perhaps they might be put off at the prospect of coming to a place where an intolerant racist idiot lives. On the other hand, they might conclude that if a prejudiced moron like you can make a living here, then anyone can, so it's time to head over here.
It's a difficult problem.
minimoog said:
Greg66 said:
Scuffers said:
like I said before, what is your solution?
We could send them a selection of your posts in this and other threads. Perhaps they might be put off at the prospect of coming to a place where an intolerant racist idiot lives. On the other hand, they might conclude that if a prejudiced moron like you can make a living here, then anyone can, so it's time to head over here.
It's a difficult problem.
let's just throw open the borders and welcome them all here why don't we?
how long before we have emptied Africa of people all to come and live here?
Just a couple of questions:
1) where do you propose they all live (we already have a housing crisis)
2) who is going to pay for it all (bearing in mind the current deficit an national debt)?
Look, this is not rocket science, Australia have shown the way already, or are you going to call them intolerant racist idiots too?
in summary, STFU.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Someone else will have to do it in your name then, as you leftys can't make a decision, and no, open borders isn't a policy it's a non decision, a dereliction of duty. You want all the trappings of a first world economy but to get that you need to subjugate the third world to do this. In your fluffy la la land you just want to have the last say. anonymous said:
[redacted]
you are aware that he only came to office in 2013?as for their policies, like I keep telling you, come up with a better alternative?
simple facts of the matter are they stopped the boats coming and in the process people dying at sea.
You do realise the population of this small island is growing at more than half a million a year?
We are not the social housing services for the rest of the planet (much kine the NHS is not the international health service)
trashbat said:
I'm more puzzled by the story in the OP which says that the fence manufacturer is secret, and the fence is kept in a secret location.
Why?
Is it in case the Soviets develop a bigger fence?
Mr. President, we must not allow a fence gap!
Why?
Is it in case the Soviets develop a bigger fence?
Mr. President, we must not allow a fence gap!
I'm guessing they are actually deeply embarrassed that they have paid thousands of pounds per foot for something that is basically just a movable fence, and they're trying to cover it up by pretending it's to do with national security and inventing new names for it.
trashbat said:
I'm more puzzled by the story in the OP which says that the fence manufacturer is secret, and the fence is kept in a secret location.
I thought the same and after abbot 2 minutes research, I found the manufacturer and a press release stating how many KM of fencing the Home Office had ordered. I think there is a bit of sensationalism going on to make it seem more mysterious than it is.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff