Brink’s-MAT / Spinal Tap Drummer Syndrome.

[jesta1865]

Magog said:

I'm genuinely surprised that the bastion of probity and diligence that is Essex Police could make such a mistake.

i'm not, my experience with essex plod would suggest they would struggle to find their own arse with their own hands.

The met on the other hand were far more professional when i dealt with them after essex had palmed off the case to them.

[rohrl]

tangerine_sedge said:

rohrl said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Very possible that the paramedic saw bandages/blood and assumed that there had been post operation complications, it's only during the post-mortem that they found the gunshot wound? Not so much incompetent police as unusual wound circumstances leading to the wrong approach being taken (but that would not make the story half as interesting to the journos would it).

"[A] former Metropolitan Police chief [said] that the force had been "utterly incompetent".

John O'Connor told The Sun: "It's one of the most terrible mistakes in policing I've ever heard of."

John O'Connor is a former Commander of the Flying Squad so it's possibly fair to assume he knows what he's talking about.

And did those senior (ex) Police officers see the evidence or are they just guessing and using their contacts in the tabloids to make a few bob on the side?

I'm sure he's seen at least as much of the evidence as you have and I'm going to go out on a limb and suppose he's a lot more experience of policing.

[Ali G]

gvij said:

The holes in his clothes and presumably blood on same and chest being 'natural causes'

Perhaps an entirely 'natural cause' given circumstances?

[NicD]

completely natural for this man

[Willy Nilly]

NicD said:

completely natural for this man

It is certainly quite natural for someone involved, however loosely, with the Brinks Mat raid to be shot.

[Oakey]

Willy Nilly said:

It is certainly quite natural for someone involved, however loosely, with the Brinks Mat raid to be shot.

Do you think this is a result of being involved in Brinks Mat or is that just part and parcel of the profession they are in and the fact they're all closely associated with one another?

[Willy Nilly]

Oakey said:

Willy Nilly said:

It is certainly quite natural for someone involved, however loosely, with the Brinks Mat raid to be shot.

Do you think this is a result of being involved in Brinks Mat or is that just part and parcel of the profession they are in and the fact they're all closely associated with one another?

It's probably more due to the line of work and Brinks Mat is just a common denominator that people have heard of and grabs head lines.

I often think they are quite intelligent people and could make decent money legitimately so avoiding getting shot and spending time in jail. They probably like the buzz and giving it large.

[Oakey]

Hypno Toad has a bit of an obsession with Kenny Noye and seems to think he's pulling all the strings in the London underworld, so much so I'm starting to think he must be Wensley Clarkson

Thing is, all of these people are associated with each other going back all the way to the Great Train Robbers.

By all accounts it was Fred Foreman and / or his pal Ronnie Olliffe who bankrolled Brinks Mat and later screwed over McAvoy out of his share and blamed it on others.

At the end of the day, being villains, they will all screw each other over so it's not really a surprise when one of them ends up dead.

[Ridgemont]

Oakey said:

Hypno Toad has a bit of an obsession with Kenny Noye and seems to think he's pulling all the strings in the London underworld, so much so I'm starting to think he must be Wensley Clarkson

Thing is, all of these people are associated with each other going back all the way to the Great Train Robbers.

By all accounts it was Fred Foreman and / or his pal Ronnie Olliffe who bankrolled Brinks Mat and later screwed over McAvoy out of his share and blamed it on others.

At the end of the day, being villains, they will all screw each other over so it's not really a surprise when one of them ends up dead.

Press now linking in the Hatton Garden job. It appears all organised heist jobs in London involve the same dozen or so people

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11714...

[The Hypno-Toad]

Oakey said:

Hypno Toad has a bit of an obsession with Kenny Noye and seems to think he's pulling all the strings in the London underworld, so much so I'm starting to think he must be Wensley Clarkson

Thing is, all of these people are associated with each other going back all the way to the Great Train Robbers.

By all accounts it was Fred Foreman and / or his pal Ronnie Olliffe who bankrolled Brinks Mat and later screwed over McAvoy out of his share and blamed it on others.

At the end of the day, being villains, they will all screw each other over so it's not really a surprise when one of them ends up dead.

I'm flattered (and ever so slightly concerned....) that someone on here has actually made a note of what I have posted in the past. Most of the time, I can't even remember what I put on here last week.
However the Clarkson I know is the obvious one so I will probably have to google to other ones work. I remember there is a journalist running around saying Mr Noye keeps ringing him from prison to threaten his life if he doesn't stop digging. Is that the chap?

As you mentioned they are all crooks and its no surprise when they start bumping each other off but out of the Brinks Mat mob no one seems to bother with Mr Noye. I wonder why?

[Oakey]

The Hypno-Toad said:

I'm flattered (and ever so slightly concerned....) that someone on here has actually made a note of what I have posted in the past. Most of the time, I can't even remember what I put on here last week.
However the Clarkson I know is the obvious one so I will probably have to google to other ones work. I remember there is a journalist running around saying Mr Noye keeps ringing him from prison to threaten his life if he doesn't stop digging. Is that the chap?

As you mentioned they are all crooks and its no surprise when they start bumping each other off but out of the Brinks Mat mob no one seems to bother with Mr Noye. I wonder why?

I haven't made a note, I just recall us having conversations on this subject quite a few times over the years.

You're correct, Wensley Clarkson is the journalist / author who keeps saying Noye wants to kill him.

As to why no one has bothered with Noye. According to McAvoys wife, he was never really seen as 'one of them' and she says they all hate him anyway. It's quite possible he's simply not worth the effort.

McAvoy is supposedly the one they all feared though, and if you'd served the stretch he did only to get out and find all your money gone, would you just let that pass?

[andymc]

Oakey said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

I'm flattered (and ever so slightly concerned....) that someone on here has actually made a note of what I have posted in the past. Most of the time, I can't even remember what I put on here last week.
However the Clarkson I know is the obvious one so I will probably have to google to other ones work. I remember there is a journalist running around saying Mr Noye keeps ringing him from prison to threaten his life if he doesn't stop digging. Is that the chap?

As you mentioned they are all crooks and its no surprise when they start bumping each other off but out of the Brinks Mat mob no one seems to bother with Mr Noye. I wonder why?

I haven't made a note, I just recall us having conversations on this subject quite a few times over the years.

You're correct, Wensley Clarkson is the journalist / author who keeps saying Noye wants to kill him.

As to why no one has bothered with Noye. According to McAvoys wife, he was never really seen as 'one of them' and she says they all hate him anyway. It's quite possible he's simply not worth the effort.

McAvoy is supposedly the one they all feared though, and if you'd served the stretch he did only to get out and find all your money gone, would you just let that pass?

I think he was due to be extradited to Spain and looking at a long straetch, silenced before he could supply names for a lesser sentence

[tangerine_sedge]

rohrl said:

tangerine_sedge said:

rohrl said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Very possible that the paramedic saw bandages/blood and assumed that there had been post operation complications, it's only during the post-mortem that they found the gunshot wound? Not so much incompetent police as unusual wound circumstances leading to the wrong approach being taken (but that would not make the story half as interesting to the journos would it).

"[A] former Metropolitan Police chief [said] that the force had been "utterly incompetent".

John O'Connor told The Sun: "It's one of the most terrible mistakes in policing I've ever heard of."

John O'Connor is a former Commander of the Flying Squad so it's possibly fair to assume he knows what he's talking about.

And did those senior (ex) Police officers see the evidence or are they just guessing and using their contacts in the tabloids to make a few bob on the side?

I'm sure he's seen at least as much of the evidence as you have and I'm going to go out on a limb and suppose he's a lot more experience of policing.

So he's not seen any evidence at all, is not a coroner, yet still holds an opinion on the ability of the officers and ambulance people involved?

[rohrl]

tangerine_sedge said:

rohrl said:

tangerine_sedge said:

rohrl said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Very possible that the paramedic saw bandages/blood and assumed that there had been post operation complications, it's only during the post-mortem that they found the gunshot wound? Not so much incompetent police as unusual wound circumstances leading to the wrong approach being taken (but that would not make the story half as interesting to the journos would it).

"[A] former Metropolitan Police chief [said] that the force had been "utterly incompetent".

John O'Connor told The Sun: "It's one of the most terrible mistakes in policing I've ever heard of."

John O'Connor is a former Commander of the Flying Squad so it's possibly fair to assume he knows what he's talking about.

And did those senior (ex) Police officers see the evidence or are they just guessing and using their contacts in the tabloids to make a few bob on the side?

I'm sure he's seen at least as much of the evidence as you have and I'm going to go out on a limb and suppose he's a lot more experience of policing.

So he's not seen any evidence at all, is not a coroner, yet still holds an opinion on the ability of the officers and ambulance people involved?

That's right. He has an opinion, just like you have, and I have, and everyone else has. His opinion happens to based in the experience of a long career in the field of policing.

[ATG]

rohrl said:

That's right. He has an opinion, just like you have, and I have, and everyone else has. His opinion happens to based in the experience of a long career in the field of policing.

So you're telling me that a thing you've never seem is slightly more blue than something else you've never seen?

[Murcielago_Boy]

Good. F**k him. Another dead scumbag.

Can't someone kill Kenneth Noye as well?

[xjsdriver]

eccles said:

The mind boggles how you can confuse natural causes with being shot in the chest!

I don't know what all the fuss is about. It's quite natural that one's life might expire after bullets have torn into the chest at circa 343 metres a second....

[Beati Dogu]

Perhaps he keeled over with a heart attack and landed on a bullet which was lying upright on the ground.

[xjsdriver]

Beati Dogu said:

Perhaps he keeled over with a heart attack and landed on a bullet which was lying upright on the ground.

That still wouldn't explain the 343 metres per second velocity type of injuries endured by the victim though

Edited by xjsdriver on Saturday 4th July 00:33

[Beati Dogu]

xjsdriver said:

Beati Dogu said:

Perhaps he keeled over with a heart attack and landed on a bullet which was lying upright on the ground.

That still wouldn't explain the 343 metres per second velocity type of injuries endured by the victim though

I don't know, I've gone down harder than that tripping over the dog.