English votes for English laws

[xjsdriver]

vanordinaire said:

Partly my point, we (the Scots) and the Irish and the Welsh all have two different layers of parasites, wouldn't it be fair if you had to have them too?

Or we could just do away with Westminster's national role and have it used for English only matters. The Union is DEAD in all but name, it's time everyone got used to the truth. I know this will rankle with some, but you know what? I really don't care - just don't try shoot the messenger, as this messenger tends to shoot back and doesn't usually miss, eh Wibbles? ;-)

[whoami]

xjsdriver said:

vanordinaire said:

Partly my point, we (the Scots) and the Irish and the Welsh all have two different layers of parasites, wouldn't it be fair if you had to have them too?

Or we could just do away with Westminster's national role and have it used for English only matters. The Union is DEAD in all but name, it's time everyone got used to the truth. I know this will rankle with some, but you know what? I really don't care - just don't try shoot the messenger, as this messenger tends to shoot back and doesn't usually miss, eh Wibbles? ;-)

If only there could have been some sort of vote to settle this.

We could have called it a referendum.

[Axionknight]

[xjsdriver]

whoami said:

If only there could have been some sort of vote to settle this.

We could have called it a referendum.

You mean a fair and impartial one?....that would be a start - we've never had one of those......YET!!!

Just like there won't be one for the in/out of EU vote......... or who knows they might just have a trial run fair and impartial referendum for the EU vote.....

Edited by xjsdriver on Friday 3rd July 23:19

[whoami]

xjsdriver said:

You mean a fair and impartial one?....that would be a start - we've never had one of those......YET!!!

Edited by xjsdriver on Friday 3rd July 23:19

[SBDJ]

You're right, the SNP were allowed to throw around their 'facts' largely unchallenged

[xjsdriver]

SBDJ said:

You're right, the SNP were allowed to throw around their 'facts' largely unchallenged

I think you'll find that everything that the SNP made a statement about was not only challenged, but that statements not even made by the SNP were attributed to them.......it happened again during the GE - which is likely to cost that lying bag of ste Carmichael to lose his job and hopefully his liberty too. You couldn't make it up.......well, Carmichael thought he could anyway - but it looks like it's going to severely bite him in the arse for being such a duplicitous tt.

[whoami]

xjsdriver said:

SBDJ said:

You're right, the SNP were allowed to throw around their 'facts' largely unchallenged

I think you'll find that everything that the SNP made a statement about was not only challenged, but that statements not even made by the SNP were attributed to them.......it happened again during the GE - which is likely to cost that lying bag of ste Carmichael to lose his job and hopefully his liberty too. You couldn't make it up.......well, Carmichael thought he could anyway - but it looks like it's going to severely bite him in the arse for being such a duplicitous tt.

So, the referendum then.

It was all a con?

[AJS-]

I can see the objection to having 2 classes of MP within one parliament.

Why can't they just devolve powers to existing county councils? They planned to do this with convoluted regions but the north east rejected it and they gave up.

Counties seem a reasonable enough sized unit, and letting them set their own rates of corporation tax etc could go some way towards ending the permanent stagnation and dependence on public spending in large parts of the north.

I can understand how some people think that the political class just hate England and it's traditional institutions so much that this sort of obvious answer is completely overlooked.

[AC43]

whoami said:

xjsdriver said:

vanordinaire said:

Partly my point, we (the Scots) and the Irish and the Welsh all have two different layers of parasites, wouldn't it be fair if you had to have them too?

Or we could just do away with Westminster's national role and have it used for English only matters. The Union is DEAD in all but name, it's time everyone got used to the truth. I know this will rankle with some, but you know what? I really don't care - just don't try shoot the messenger, as this messenger tends to shoot back and doesn't usually miss, eh Wibbles? ;-)

If only there could have been some sort of vote to settle this.

We could have called it a referendum.

[Welshbeef]

Xjs Driver - how's things going cockroach ?

Still have that massive property portfolio taking DSS only tenants in and charging them market rates. Oh and I did smile when you donated £500 to a website pro Yes but the leader lives in Bath . I'm happy to set one up too for one of your £500.

[r11co]

xjsdriver said:

I think you'll find that everything that the SNP made a statement about was not only challenged, but that statements not even made by the SNP were attributed to them.......it happened again during the GE - which is likely to cost that lying bag of ste Carmichael to lose his job and hopefully his liberty too. You couldn't make it up.......well, Carmichael thought he could anyway - but it looks like it's going to severely bite him in the arse for being such a duplicitous tt.

Park it xjsdrive. SNP were the proven liars during the GE, stating in their campaign leaflets that Labour MPs had supported the Spare Room Subsidy and £30bn spending cuts (and coining the term 'Red Tories' to describe these "greedy" MPs) despite Parliamentary voting records showing no Labour MP had ever voted for these measures.

SNP have since continually tweeted false interpretations of the voting stats for Parliament since their 56 entered the house.

A spin-off of EVEL is that technology will be used to gather parliamentary votes so the official and correct results can be made available on the internet/social media instantly, thus cutting off the SNPs propaganda machine. This is the real reason for their objection to it.

Edited by r11co on Saturday 4th July 09:14

[McTory]

xjsdriver said:

Or we could just do away with Westminster's national role and have it used for English only matters. The Union is DEAD in all but name, it's time everyone got used to the truth. I know this will rankle with some, but you know what? I really don't care - just don't try shoot the messenger, as this messenger tends to shoot back and doesn't usually miss, eh Wibbles? ;-)

The union is fked

I can't wait to break away from those scum down south

Then when Scotland does a Greece we can get a nice conservative lead state with all the low life's fking off to England to sickle off the state

[Smollet]

whoami said:

So, the referendum then.

It was all a con?

We need a referendum on having a referendum.

[///ajd]

xjsdriver said:

whoami said:

If only there could have been some sort of vote to settle this.

We could have called it a referendum.

You mean a fair and impartial one?....that would be a start - we've never had one of those......YET!!!

Edited by xjsdriver on Friday 3rd July 23:19

My word.

For a fair and impartial one, you need what? Maybe a 700 page document from the SNP explaining how it will all work full of facts and no lies? Supported by taxpayer funded 'impartial' Holyrood civil servants, perhaps?

Lets remind ourselves of a white paper gem:

"The Scottish government has published two forecasts for a range of scenarios:

1. Production & prices are unchanged >> £6.8Bn
2. Production & prices increase >> £7.8Bn

Source: summarised from Scotland's Future, aka the "sh!te paper" - page 74"

Did that give you a fair and impartial view on oil sector risk and forecast?

Its seems not, but the party with their pants on fire was demonstrably, without any shadow of a doubt, the SNP. What is amazing, and why references to 1933 are so valid - is that a significant proportion of the nation lap it up without questioning obvious lies and information intended to misled. If you believe this nonsense, make no mistake - you have been mislead. You should be angry, but not with those supporting the UK, but with the Scottish Government for turning your civil servants into part of their invidious nationalist machine. See again 1933, this is not a good direction for any government.

Ask yourself - why do the SNP need to lie & mislead so much, and tell such massive whoppers (these are not, lets face it, little white lies)?

Edited by ///ajd on Saturday 4th July 09:31

[arp1]

The main issue is that when Non English MPs are barred from voting on matters that will directly affect their 'pocket money', so quite rightly there is some disquiet on the situation.

[r11co]

///ajd said:

Ask yourself - why do the SNP need to lie & mislead so much, and tell such massive whoppers (these are not, lets face it, little white lies)?

Bit of a thread hijack there AJD :-)

I worry less and less every day about the SNP's influence. They now just play to their own audience which isn't going to increase their support by the 10% needed to win indyref 2.

Their intervention on EVEL was stupid and transparent - even fair-minded nationalists will question their 'have their cake and eat it' stance, but then of course the reason the SNP do not want the change is it will cut-off one of their main lines of propaganda, so this was a move not to strengthen their support but to try and maintain it at present levels. Lose-lose for them on this one.

A former member and now vocal critic of the SNP George Laird has stated on may occasions that the SNP's undoing will be their lack of political competence and guile. It is therefor unsurprising to see how easily they are being played over issues like this. Even if EVEL does not happen, the infrastructure for supporting it (and the resulting voting stats showing who supported what) will be implemented, which will end SNP's ability to falsify the results of Parliamentary votes online.

Edited by r11co on Saturday 4th July 10:00

[///ajd]

r11co said:

///ajd said:

Ask yourself - why do the SNP need to lie & mislead so much, and tell such massive whoppers (these are not, lets face it, little white lies)?

Bit of a thread hijack there AJD :-)

Edited by r11co on Saturday 4th July 10:00

Sorry, perhaps I should focus on the following more UK centric argument given the EVEL debate:

Propose that we have a specical referendum across the whole of the UK:

"Regional politics has become divisive and initiatives such as EVEL and independence referendums are weakening the unity of the UK for no apparent benefit to the UK as a whole at all. The regional benefits of devolution are not apparent in the 20 years since their implementation, but massive waste, inappropriate politicisation of e.g. holyrood civil servants and empty rhetoric are all we have to show for the £10Bn cost to date of running these dog and pony shows.

Does the UK population therefore agree that we should agree to simultaneously:

1. Abandon plans for EVEL voting or any scheme that may promote division across the UK
2. Dis-establish Holyrood, Welsh Assembly etc. and return to a fairer more equitable method of government
3. Re-inforce Westminster as the UK government with clear accountability for ALL its citizens.

Yes/No.

Simple majority (50.1%) needed across UK. All in UK can vote, including ex-pats born in UK with UK passport.

PS As a bonus this is expected to save £0.5Bn/year on the costs of regional administrations, MSPs, etc.

What is not to like?

It was a nice experiment back in the mid 90s, but lets face it we just ended up with bigoted nationalist nonsense. As the UK we just don't need it.

Edited by ///ajd on Saturday 4th July 10:49

Edited by ///ajd on Saturday 4th July 10:51

[Mojocvh]

r11co said:

xjsdriver said:

I think you'll find that everything that the SNP made a statement about was not only challenged, but that statements not even made by the SNP were attributed to them.......it happened again during the GE - which is likely to cost that lying bag of ste Carmichael to lose his job and hopefully his liberty too. You couldn't make it up.......well, Carmichael thought he could anyway - but it looks like it's going to severely bite him in the arse for being such a duplicitous tt.

Park it xjsdrive. SNP were the proven liars during the GE, stating in their campaign leaflets that Labour MPs had supported the Spare Room Subsidy and £30bn spending cuts (and coining the term 'Red Tories' to describe these "greedy" MPs) despite Parliamentary voting records showing no Labour MP had ever voted for these measures.

SNP have since continually tweeted false interpretations of the voting stats for Parliament since their 56 entered the house.

A spin-off of EVEL is that technology will be used to gather parliamentary votes so the official and correct results can be made available on the internet/social media instantly, thus cutting off the SNPs propaganda machine. This is the real reason for their objection to it.

Edited by r11co on Saturday 4th July 09:14

If true this is an amazing step forwards in democratic transparency, watch out MP Pete Wishart......

[r11co]

Mojocvh said:

If true this is an amazing step forwards in democratic transparency, watch out MP Pete Wishart......

It's true alright, and Mr Wishart already knows he's been caught bang-to-rights....

Sky News said:

The SNP's Peter Wishart called the proposals "a cobbled together unworkable mess, which will end up in the courts".

Gotta love his delusions - evidence of him being so incompetent as to vote WITH the government and AGAINST his party whip coming out in future being actionable in the courts!!

Edited by r11co on Saturday 4th July 15:21