English votes for English laws

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Discussion

HarryW

Original Poster:

15,150 posts

268 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
Could' see a thread for this, feel free to close this and point to the thread if there is.

Does today's announcement answer the West Lothian question or is it a half baked idea that will prove to be unworkable. I see the fisher wife north of the border is bleating about it, so at least some of it must be right.

My own take is it is a poor half way house that will do nothing. I'm not understanding why rather than restricting the committee stage to English only MP's it can't be extended to the voting as well? Or have I not understood it?

NicD

3,281 posts

256 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
Not sure it will work as rather complex and requires input for each bill from the poison dwarf but a step in the right direction

jurbie

2,339 posts

200 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
According to Gerald Kaufman your thread title is racist.

http://order-order.com/2015/07/02/labour-mp-englis...


HarryW

Original Poster:

15,150 posts

268 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
jurbie said:
According to Gerald Kaufman your thread title is racist.

http://order-order.com/2015/07/02/labour-mp-englis...
Blimey from the comments on there I take it GK is held in contempt in some circles....

HarryW

Original Poster:

15,150 posts

268 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
Really surprised at the lack of opinion on this, I suppose it does go to show the lack interest and apathy the politicians rely on.

s2art

18,937 posts

252 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
HarryW said:
Could' see a thread for this, feel free to close this and point to the thread if there is.

Does today's announcement answer the West Lothian question or is it a half baked idea that will prove to be unworkable. I see the fisher wife north of the border is bleating about it, so at least some of it must be right.

My own take is it is a poor half way house that will do nothing. I'm not understanding why rather than restricting the committee stage to English only MP's it can't be extended to the voting as well? Or have I not understood it?
It looks pretty simple and straightforward to me. It just means that there have to be a majority of English MPs for a bill to go through, as well as a majority of all MPs. Essentially it gives the English MPs a veto on bills which only affect England.

HarryW

Original Poster:

15,150 posts

268 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
s2art said:
HarryW said:
Could' see a thread for this, feel free to close this and point to the thread if there is.

Does today's announcement answer the West Lothian question or is it a half baked idea that will prove to be unworkable. I see the fisher wife north of the border is bleating about it, so at least some of it must be right.

My own take is it is a poor half way house that will do nothing. I'm not understanding why rather than restricting the committee stage to English only MP's it can't be extended to the voting as well? Or have I not understood it?
It looks pretty simple and straightforward to me. It just means that there have to be a majority of English MPs for a bill to go through, as well as a majority of all MPs. Essentially it gives the English MPs a veto on bills which only affect England.
Conversely, non English MP's can add their weight to the MP's opposing a bill that affects England only thus defeating a majority of English MP's. A bit like now.

Ridgemont

6,488 posts

130 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
HarryW said:
jurbie said:
According to Gerald Kaufman your thread title is racist.

http://order-order.com/2015/07/02/labour-mp-englis...
Blimey from the comments on there I take it GK is held in contempt in some circles....
Looks like fairly standard fare for a Guido thread tbh. Which in itself is fairly dispiriting. Always worth reading for the comedy if Guido posts something about Gordy Broon smile

0000

13,812 posts

190 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
jurbie said:
According to Gerald Kaufman your thread title is racist.

http://order-order.com/2015/07/02/labour-mp-englis...
That's pretty inflammatory.

Mojocvh

16,837 posts

261 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
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What's an "English" Law ?

bodhi

10,333 posts

228 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
Ridgemont said:
Looks like fairly standard fare for a Guido thread tbh. Which in itself is fairly dispiriting. Always worth reading for the comedy if Guido posts something about Gordy Broon smile
I do find the comments on Guido's articles amusing. Some of them make PH look like the Karl Marx fan club - they get especially amusing when Owen Jones opens his mouth.

IroningMan

10,154 posts

245 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
Mojocvh said:
What's an "English" Law ?
One which in effect only applies to England because it deals with a matter that is within the competences of the devolved institutions - Scottish Parliament etc - for the other parts of the UK.

John145

2,447 posts

155 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
I don't see why there is an issue with it, especially now that labour have 1 MP in Scotland!

Any argument against it I cannot comprehend as being real or fair to the English.

arp1

583 posts

126 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
The main issue is that when Non English MPs are barred from voting on matters that will directly affect their 'pocket money', so quite rightly there is some disquiet on the situation.

///ajd

8,964 posts

205 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
arp1 said:
The main issue is that when Non English MPs are barred from voting on matters that will directly affect their 'pocket money', so quite rightly there is some disquiet on the situation.
I can kind of see the frustration, even though the Nats have brought this on themselves due to their outrageous bleating and whinging during the neverendum. Its a mistake, but the noisy Nats have bullied the rUK for so long that CallMeDave feels he needs to be seen to be doing something.

I can't help feeling it is an unneccesary step, an erosion of the UK, and should probably be parked. Just like Holyrood, which should be scrapped - or usefully turned into a nice art gallery or community space. Both Holyrood and EVEL can be shown to be unfair and divisive from various perspectives.


Edited by ///ajd on Friday 3rd July 22:08


Edited by ///ajd on Friday 3rd July 22:09

James P

2,950 posts

236 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
arp1 said:
The main issue is that when Non English MPs are barred from voting on matters that will directly affect their 'pocket money', so quite rightly there is some disquiet on the situation.
If it affects the "pocket money" of non- English MPs I would have though it wouldn't be an "English Law" affecting "only England" so the non- English MPs would be able to vote.

Although if they was only 56 of them, they wouldn't necessarily decide the outcome smile

Still, they could complain about how unfair it is if it makes them feel better wink

vanordinaire

3,701 posts

161 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
The only way for it to be completely fair is for each nation to have it's own devolved parliament with the same powers for each. Then no-one could possibly have any grounds to complain, could they?

s2art

18,937 posts

252 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
vanordinaire said:
The only way for it to be completely fair is for each nation to have it's own devolved parliament with the same powers for each. Then no-one could possibly have any grounds to complain, could they?
But this achieves much the same thing and doesnt cost anything. The last thing we need is another layer of parasitic politicians.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
s2art said:
vanordinaire said:
The only way for it to be completely fair is for each nation to have it's own devolved parliament with the same powers for each. Then no-one could possibly have any grounds to complain, could they?
But this achieves much the same thing and doesnt cost anything. The last thing we need is another layer of parasitic politicians.
Just have the MPs currently elected in England sit on the matters on separate days/sessions to matters that are UK wide?

vanordinaire

3,701 posts

161 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
s2art said:
vanordinaire said:
The only way for it to be completely fair is for each nation to have it's own devolved parliament with the same powers for each. Then no-one could possibly have any grounds to complain, could they?
But this achieves much the same thing and doesnt cost anything. The last thing we need is another layer of parasitic politicians.
Partly my point, we (the Scots) and the Irish and the Welsh all have two different layers of parasites, wouldn't it be fair if you had to have them too?