Housing benefit cap.

[mph1977]

Funkycoldribena said:

98elise said:

Prices are high because of lack of building.

That said renting doesn't have to be expensive I have 4 BTL's in the south east. 3x 3 bed and 1x 2 bed. 40 minutes to london from the nearest station. All but one are let for £650 per week.

The other is currently being refurbed before going back on the market. It will be completely redecorated and have a new kitchen. It will let for about £700-750.

That house was bought on the open market for 122k 2 years ago.

650-750 a week isnt expensive??? What planet are you on? I don't pay that a month!

it's cheap within 40 minutes by rail from London

there's a a bubble in property prices around Grantham and Newark as the upper limits of ECML commuterland ... but that;s over an hour each way ( similar patterns along the other main lines - up as far as Mkt Harborough on the MML for instance)

[Negative Creep]

MajorProblem said:

Rightmove has tens of thousands of...

Houses to buy under £150k

Houses to rent under £600 PCM

So what's the issue?

minimum wage being about £1k a month after tax?

[xjsdriver]

Negative Creep said:

MajorProblem said:

Rightmove has tens of thousands of...

Houses to buy under £150k

Houses to rent under £600 PCM

So what's the issue?

minimum wage being about £1k a month after tax?

To add to that - Mortgage availability, or should I say Mortgage (un)availability?

[55palfers]

MajorProblem said:

Rightmove has tens of thousands of...

Houses to buy under £150k

Houses to rent under £600 PCM

So what's the issue?

But where?

Handy for current jobs and schooling?

[anonymous-user]

55palfers said:

But where?

Handy for current jobs and schooling?

As I posted earlier, people need to get used to the idea of moving around the country to places where jobs and property are suitable for them.

[Negative Creep]

NinjaPower said:

55palfers said:

But where?

Handy for current jobs and schooling?

As I posted earlier, people need to get used to the idea of moving around the country to places where jobs and property are suitable for them.

So who is going to work in the supermarkets and call centres of London and the South East?

[xjsdriver]

98elise said:

How would an occupied council house help with the shortfall? You can't put 2 families in a single house.

The Council need empty propertiies, not occupied houses.

As has been said above, when sold the same family lives in the same house. No more or less properties are available for occupation.

Said family lived there until they were able to sell it, which many did at a vast profit (not that I have a problem with that in principle)......council house building went into decline - fast forward to today and we have the mess that we have - all due to the idiotic prohibition placed on councils that they could not re-invest the money brought in from the sale of the houses on building new housing stock.
So councils ran short of housing stock and had to rely on the private sector to help house council tenants and those on HB further pushing up rental prices. A generation and more ago a house cost roughly 3 times the average salary..........now, fking forget it - Do you call that progress? I say it's a step backwards. Roll on Victorian Britain and workhouses seems to be the Tory way of thinking.

[Funkycoldribena]

Negative Creep said:

So who is going to work in the supermarkets and call centres of London and the South East?

I'd love to see all the low paid move tomorrow and just see what happens to London.

[xjsdriver]

Funkycoldribena said:

Negative Creep said:

So who is going to work in the supermarkets and call centres of London and the South East?

I'd love to see all the low paid move tomorrow and just see what happens to London.

I think the plan is to have a string of ghettos/gulags/workhouses dotted around the M25 to serve as commuter points for those on minimum wage.

[98elise]

xjsdriver said:

98elise said:

How would an occupied council house help with the shortfall? You can't put 2 families in a single house.

The Council need empty propertiies, not occupied houses.

As has been said above, when sold the same family lives in the same house. No more or less properties are available for occupation.

Said family lived there until they were able to sell it, which many did at a vast profit (not that I have a problem with that in principle)......council house building went into decline - fast forward to today and we have the mess that we have - all due to the idiotic prohibition placed on councils that they could not re-invest the money brought in from the sale of the houses on building new housing stock.
So councils ran short of housing stock and had to rely on the private sector to help house council tenants and those on HB further pushing up rental prices. A generation and more ago a house cost roughly 3 times the average salary..........now, fking forget it - Do you call that progress? I say it's a step backwards. Roll on Victorian Britain and workhouses seems to be the Tory way of thinking.

Regardless of if that family sell and move, the are still the same number of families living in the same number of properties. You have not created any additional capacity by keeping the property as a council house.

A generation ago houses were 4 times in my area. My father was an engineer, my parents house was 4x his salary in 1966. In 1988 i bought my first house in the same area for 4x my salary. Back then you were expected to come up with a 25% deposit, and you could borrow 3 - 3.5x your salary.

In the past 5 years I've bought 4 properties (of a similar size) in my area for between 108k, and 130k. Average salary is 26k so thats about 4x an average salary.

In the past few years prices have boomed again though, and they are now silly again. What we need is more houses being built to meet demand. That will keep prices reasonable.

[JensenA]

NinjaPower said:

MajorProblem said:

Rightmove has tens of thousands of...

Houses to buy under £150k

Houses to rent under £600 PCM

So what's the issue?

Because some people refuse to move around the country to obtain suitable housing or employment, and think they have some kind 'right' to homes and employment exactly where they live or where they would like to live, without having to move.

It seems a peculiar way of looking at things, but believe me, plenty of these people exist.

"these People"? You arrogant opiniated tt. You need a good dose of the reality medicine.

[rover 623gsi]

It really is crazy that the Housing Benefit bill has reached £25bn a year. But this happened simply becuase have rents have risen - in both relative and absolute terms. And the HB bill will continue to rise (even with the introduction of the 'bedroom tax', overall benefit caps and other similar policies) as long as rents continue to rise.

The increase in HB is being driven particularly by low-paid workers living in private rented accomodation. Around £10bn is paid to people in this group, with around £15bn going to tenants in the social housing sector. The average HB payment to those renting privately is approx £110pw whereas the average HB payment to those in social housing is £70pw. Thus, more social housing would lower the HB bill quite considerably. Also worth noting that the £15bn that ends up being paid to housing associations and local authorities at least gets invested back into local communities, whereas the £10bn that ends up in the pockets of private landlords (increasingly foreign owners) does not ever produce any meaningful impact on housebuilding or regeneration.

The bottom line is we just do not build enough houses. It's quite incredible that after WWII when this country was in more debt than it is now, the government of the day was able to introduce the NHS, reform state education and embark on a massive housebuilding programme on a scale never seen before or since - and in doing so improving the lives of millions of people, creating jobs and boosting the economy.

[rover 623gsi]

Number of dwellings (all property types) completions by tenure England 1946-2014

Year - Private - HA - Council - Total
1946 - 28,760 - 100 - 20,400 - 49,250
1947 - 38,630 - 860 - 81,370 - 120,860
1948 - 30,370 - 1,820 - 161,400 - 193,590
1949 - 23,800 - 1,330 - 139,530 - 162,110
1950 - 25,310 - 1,500 - 136,530 - 163,340
1951 - 20,170 - 1,610 - 140,510 - 162,290
1952 - 30,500 - 1,800 - 164,620 - 196,930
1953 - 58,270 - 7,200 - 198,210 - 263,680
1954 - 85,380 - 14,020 - 193,710 - 293,110
1955 - 106,800 - 4,350 - 158,860 - 270,010
1956 - 115,940 - 2,400 - 137,660 - 256,360
1957 - 118,820 - 1,880 - 135,660 - 256,360
1958 - 119,910 - 1,120 - 110,120 - 231,150
1959 - 141,510 - 1,110 - 95,990 - 238,600
1960 - 156,020 - 1,650 - 99,950 - 257,620
1961 - 163,350 - 1,560 - 91,250 - 256,160
1962 - 159,520 - 1,550 - 102,490 - 263,560
1963 - 160,630 - 1,930 - 94,020 - 256,580
1964 - 200,670 - 2,850 - 114,020 - 317,540
1965 - 196,750 - 3,620 - 127,290 - 327,660
1966 - 187,720 - 4,100 - 138,140 - 330,120
1967 - 183,720 - 4,520 - 154,500 - 342,740
1968 - 203,320 - 5,540 - 143,680 - 352,540
1969 - 164,070 - 7,100 - 135,700 - 306,860
1970 - 153,440 - 8,180 - 130,180 - 291, 790
1971 - 170,820 - 10,170 - 113,680 - 294,680
1972 - 173,990 - 6,900 - 91,630 - 272,520
1973 - 163,460 - 8,340 - 77,920 - 249,710
1974 - 121,490 - 9,260 - 98,610 - 229,360
1975 - 131.480 - 13,650 - 116,330 - 261,460
1976 - 130,900 - 14.440 - 118,090 - 263,430
1977 - 121,570 - 24,190 - 115,840 - 170,600
1978 - 127,490 - 20,570 - 93,300 - 241,360
1979 - 118,390 - 16,280 - 74,840 - 209,460
1980 - 110,230 - 19,300 - 74,840 - 204,370
1981 - 98,900 - 16,820 - 54,880 - 170,600
1982 - 108,790 - 11,180 - 31,660 - 151,630
1983 - 129,490 - 14,340 - 29,900 - 173,720
1984 - 138,970 - 13,920 - 29,190 - 182,080
1985 - 135,460 - 11,300 - 23,280 - 170,040
1986 - 148,890 - 10,620 - 19,630 - 179,140
1987 - 161,740 - 10,940 - 16,620 - 189,300
1988 - 176,020 - 10,780 - 16,630 - 202,930
1989 - 154,000 - 10,650 - 14,700 - 179,360
1990 - 136,060 - 13,820 - 14,020 - 163,900
1991 - 131,170 - 15,300 - 8,310 - 154,600
1992 - 119,530 - 20,790 - 3,510 - 143,830
1993 - 116,630 - 29,780 - 1,420 - 147,840
1994 - 122,720 - 30,850 - 1,090 - 147,840
1995 - 125,470 - 30,890 - 790 - 157,140
1996 - 121,550 - 27,030 - 510 - 149,090
1997 - 128,240 - 20,970 - 290 - 149,490
1998 - 122,510 - 19,900 - 240 - 142,650
1999 - 123,180 - 17,780 - 50 - 141,010
2000 - 118,330 - 16,680 - 90 - 135,100
2001 - 114,850 - 14,500 - 160 - 129,510
2002 - 123,320 - 13,310 - 180 - 136,800
2003 - 131,060 - 12,820 - 180 - 144,060
2004 - 137,330 - 16,600 - 130 - 154,070
2005 - 141,740 - 17,540 - 180 - 159,450
2006 - 139,910 - 20,660 - 280 - 160,850
2007 - 154,210 - 22,180 - 250 - 176,650
2008 - 121,100 - 26,470 - 430 - 148,010
2009 - 97,620 - 26,990 - 360 - 124,970
2010 - 83,280 - 22,650 - 90 - 106,720
2011 - 85,870 - 25,940 - 2,230 - 114,020
2012 - 88,740 - 25,440 - 1,140 - 115,590
2013 - 87,040 - 21,610 - 840 - 109,490
2014 - 93,210 - 23,890 - 1,180 - 118,280

Edited by rover 623gsi on Saturday 4th July 10:08

Edited by rover 623gsi on Saturday 4th July 10:15

[NicD]

rover 623gsi said:

It really is crazy that the Housing Benefit bill has reached £25bn a year. But this happened simply becuase have rents have risen - in both relative and absolute terms. And the HB bill will continue to rise (even with the introduction of the 'bedroom tax', overall benefit caps and other similar policies) as long as rents continue to rise.

The increase in HB is being driven particularly by low-paid workers living in private rented accomodation. Around £10bn is paid to people in this group, with around £15bn going to tenants in the social housing sector. The average HB payment to those renting privately is approx £110pw whereas the average HB payment to those in social housing is £70pw. Thus, more social housing would lower the HB bill quite considerably. Also worth noting that the £15bn that ends up being paid to housing associations and local authorities at least gets invested back into local communities, whereas the £10bn that ends up in the pockets of private landlords (increasingly foreign owners) does not ever produce any meaningful impact on housebuilding or regeneration.

The bottom line is we just do not build enough houses. It's quite incredible that after WWII when this country was in more debt than it is now, the government of the day was able to introduce the NHS, reform state education and embark on a massive housebuilding programme on a scale never seen before or since - and in doing so improving the lives of millions of people, creating jobs and boosting the economy.

'we just do not build enough houses' for the huge population growth, partly (largely?) driven by recent immigration.

There has been an explosion of erecting apartment blocks where I live in West London, thousands upon thousands of units built in the last decade or so.
Will never be enough if we cannot control the population growth.

[rover 623gsi]

NicD said:

'we just do not build enough houses' for the huge population growth, partly (largely?) driven by recent immigration.

There has been an explosion of erecting apartment blocks where I live in West London, thousands upon thousands of units built in the last decade or so.
Will never be enough if we cannot control the population growth.

it is clearly not true that 'thousands upon thousands of units built in the last decade or so' as the figures above show. Most people's perception of housebuilding numbers is way out of line with reality.

[NicD]

rover 623gsi said:

NicD said:

'we just do not build enough houses' for the huge population growth, partly (largely?) driven by recent immigration.

There has been an explosion of erecting apartment blocks where I live in West London, thousands upon thousands of units built in the last decade or so.
Will never be enough if we cannot control the population growth.

it is clearly not true that 'thousands upon thousands of units built in the last decade or so' as the figures above show. Most people's perception of housebuilding numbers is way out of line with reality.

I said APARTMENTs

There are 10 schemes within a mile of me that would account for 2,000 units on their own.

Do the figures cover these?

[rover 623gsi]

yes - those numbers from the ONS cover all dwellings of all property types.

[NicD]

OK, so:

Annual housing starts totalled 122,590 in the 12 months to December 2013, up by 23 per cent compared with the year before.

So i don't get your point at all. I have simply stated facts that around where I live, there has been an explosion of building.

If we invite the entire world here, we should instantly build a billion units or what?

[okgo]

55palfers said:

If I was in my twenties with a reasonable salary today, saving up a £30 - 40K deposit (whilst still paying £1200 a month rent) would take a bit of doing.

I'm not sure what it was like way back when, but now it seems that the norm is not to buy anywhere until you've got a partner that you're going to stay with?

I'm in my twenties and saved up while paying rent (almost same figures as you've given above) - it wasn't exactly easy and we went without holidays for a couple of years and such, as someone else said it won't just come to you if you're wasting a stload of money each month.

I also can now see that we are not the common couple because many of my mates will be renting for a LEAST 5 more years, unless some serious handouts get passed down. Many people my age have resigned themselves to the fact that renting is the only option in the London area, sure, it is if you earn 30 grand a year, but none of them seem to have aimed for more, a lot of them seem set that bigger salaries do not come to people in their 20's, which I has been their un-doing.

[rover 623gsi]

NicD said:

OK, so:

Annual housing starts totalled 122,590 in the 12 months to December 2013, up by 23 per cent compared with the year before.

So i don't get your point at all. I have simply stated facts that around where I live, there has been an explosion of building.

If we invite the entire world here, we should instantly build a billion units or what?

when you start from a very low base it's easy to show a high percentage increase. There are no 'facts' that there has been an explosion of building because my any measure there hasn't been.

The point is that the number of properties (of all types and all tenure) has been falling while the demand has been increasing. While that continues, the HB bill will rise, rents will rise and prices will rise.