Housing benefit cap.

Author
Discussion

55palfers

Original Poster:

5,892 posts

163 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33353318

Can anyone talk me through this please?

Since 1979 (when "fair rent" council houses started being sold off) the number of HB claimants has been "roughly" the same, yet the cost of HB has rocketed.

Should the cap be applied to the private landlord and the rent they charge knowing that HMG has (until recently) a seemingly bottomless pit of money to pay any rate of rent the landlord charges?

It seems to me that £25 billion per year would build a lot of council houses at affordable rents

randlemarcus

13,507 posts

230 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
Seems eminently fair to me, perhaps as part of a declared longer term cap on HB rates. I had a couple of months of leisure time a few years ago, and was utterly dumbfounded when they paid 100% of my rent. Maybe when we have more money, we can be properly fair, and give unemployed folks with mortgages a few quid when they are on their uppers as well, but not quite yet.

Justayellowbadge

37,057 posts

241 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
55palfers said:
Should the cap be applied to the private landlord and the rent they charge knowing that HMG has (until recently) a seemingly bottomless pit of money to pay any rate of rent the landlord charges?
No, of course not.

xjsdriver

1,071 posts

120 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
55palfers said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33353318

Can anyone talk me through this please?

Since 1979 (when "fair rent" council houses started being sold off) the number of HB claimants has been "roughly" the same, yet the cost of HB has rocketed.

Should the cap be applied to the private landlord and the rent they charge knowing that HMG has (until recently) a seemingly bottomless pit of money to pay any rate of rent the landlord charges?

It seems to me that £25 billion per year would build a lot of council houses at affordable rents
Rents rocketing is something we've covered a fair bit - it's tied into house price rises, if since 1979, we'd been building properties to keep up with what were sold off by the councils - we'd be in a much better position than we are today. But all we hear is "it's been a long time since maggie's day - why are you still blaming her?" to which the retort is "because of her idiotic fking mantra of a small state at any cost".

55palfers

Original Poster:

5,892 posts

163 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
My chum's lad and his wife are trying to get on the housing ladder and has been paying £1200 rent per month for years.

The house he wants would mean a £1000 mortgage which he can clearly afford - but sadly he can't have a mortgage due to "affordability" criteria and the need to save a bigger deposit.

There is a housing crisis - how it is fixed - any ideas....?

Andy Zarse

10,868 posts

246 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
xjsdriver said:
Rents rocketing is something we've covered a fair bit - it's tied into house price rises, if since 1979, we'd been building properties to keep up with what were sold off by the councils - we'd be in a much better position than we are today. But all we hear is "it's been a long time since maggie's day - why are you still blaming her?" to which the retort is "because of her idiotic fking mantra of a small state at any cost".
Do you not find it in any way extraordinary in this day and age that working people should, as a matter of course, be reliant on the State to provide the bricks and mortar of their housing?

xjsdriver

1,071 posts

120 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
Andy Zarse said:
Do you not find it in any way extraordinary in this day and age that working people should, as a matter of course, be reliant on the State to provide the bricks and mortar of their housing?
It is only in the UK the we have a fixation on owning property. All over Europe the numbers of people that rent far outstrip those that own their properties.
If you cannot see that a generation or so ago, most working people could afford to buy their own home if they were of a mind to do so.....now being able to buy one's own home is out of reach to most working people on median salaries.
If you do not see this as a problem, then you are severely deluded, or simply have no bearing on reality.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
55palfers said:
My chum's lad and his wife are trying to get on the housing ladder and has been paying £1200 rent per month for years.

The house he wants would mean a £1000 mortgage which he can clearly afford - but sadly he can't have a mortgage due to "affordability" criteria and the need to save a bigger deposit.

There is a housing crisis - how it is fixed - any ideas....?
Call Sarnie.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
xjsdriver said:
It is only in the UK the we have a fixation on owning property. All over Europe the numbers of people that rent far outstrip those that own their properties.
If you cannot see that a generation or so ago, most working people could afford to buy their own home if they were of a mind to do so.....now being able to buy one's own home is out of reach to most working people on median salaries.
If you do not see this as a problem, then you are severely deluded, or simply have no bearing on reality.
Bullst bingo. Around 2/3 of UK homes are owner occupied. This figure is lower than the EU average and the Euro area average.

http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?qu...

Magog

2,652 posts

188 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
quotequote all
xjsdriver said:
Andy Zarse said:
Do you not find it in any way extraordinary in this day and age that working people should, as a matter of course, be reliant on the State to provide the bricks and mortar of their housing?
It is only in the UK the we have a fixation on owning property. All over Europe the numbers of people that rent far outstrip those that own their properties.
If you cannot see that a generation or so ago, most working people could afford to buy their own home if they were of a mind to do so.....now being able to buy one's own home is out of reach to most working people on median salaries.
If you do not see this as a problem, then you are severely deluded, or simply have no bearing on reality.
When you say 'all over Europe', you presumably actually mean, 'only in Switzerland and Germany'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Europe

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
Magog said:
When you say 'all over Europe', you presumably actually mean, 'only in Switzerland and Germany'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

Germany's home ownership rate appears to be >50%...?

voyds9

8,488 posts

282 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
55palfers said:
My chum's lad and his wife are trying to get on the housing ladder and has been paying £1200 rent per month for years.

The house he wants would mean a £1000 mortgage which he can clearly afford - but sadly he can't have a mortgage due to "affordability" criteria and the need to save a bigger deposit.

There is a housing crisis - how it is fixed - any ideas....?
Buy a house he doesn't want that the banks say he can afford. Then trade up later.


I'm in a similar position. I already have a mortgage but can't re-mortgage at a lesser repayment due to affordability criteria.

I could save approx £90/month by re-mortgaging with the same bank but I don't meet their criteria.

Crazy mixed up world

Magog

2,652 posts

188 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
simoid said:
Magog said:
When you say 'all over Europe', you presumably actually mean, 'only in Switzerland and Germany'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

Germany's home ownership rate appears to be >50%...?
Looks like the data in your link is more up to date, better change that to 'only in Switzerland'.

sooperscoop

408 posts

162 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
55palfers said:
My chum's lad and his wife are trying to get on the housing ladder and has been paying £1200 rent per month for years.

The house he wants would mean a £1000 mortgage which he can clearly afford - but sadly he can't have a mortgage due to "affordability" criteria and the need to save a bigger deposit.

There is a housing crisis - how it is fixed - any ideas....?
Build more houses - lots more, especially multi-occupancy. Build up!

Make Buy-to-Let mortgages illegal. The only landlords should be corporate/charity/housing associations.

Punitively tax non-primary dwellings. Second home? You'll be paying 3x the council tax.

None of this will happen, or even close, we'll just bumble along being squeezed dry until we die broke.

developer

265 posts

156 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
55palfers said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33353318

Should the cap be applied to the private landlord and the rent they charge knowing that HMG has (until recently) a seemingly bottomless pit of money to pay any rate of rent the landlord charges?
For some years now housing benefit rents (called Local Housing Allowance) have been paid according to what the claimant is entitled to - for example, a person living alone is entitled to the one bed rate.

They can rent the five bed house of their dreams, but they will only receive the one bed rate and will have to make up the rest themselves (which they obviously can't in my extreme example).

Also there are published rent bands, by council, for one bed, two bed, three bed etc and these are fixed maximum entitlements.

The days of the landlord getting whatever he/she set the rent at are long gone.




Edited by developer on Friday 3rd July 00:40


Edited by developer on Friday 3rd July 00:46

C.A.R.

3,967 posts

187 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
It should be regulated better - that's a given, but implementation is another thing...

Whilst I appreciate there aren't enough houses and certainly not enough social housing, there are people living way beyond their means in terms of location and property type as a result of weak laws not allowing them to be relocated to a more economically viable area.

We are fortunate in that I work full time and we can afford to rent privately, but even so we have had to move a few miles away from the town where our friends and family live and where we grew up because it's more cost effective. Why is the housing benefit supporting non-working people and enabling them to live in accommodation in affluent parts of the country for this very reason? It's a luxury hard-working people don't get a choice in. Perhaps moving people away from their family and chums will help them find independence and maybe employment as a result - motivation to go and get rather than sit and receive whilst spouting rubbish about their hooman rites. Kick em out!

Aaargh

daytona365

1,773 posts

163 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
Of course it should have been capped decades ago, why should unemployable third world undesirables plague the likes of Kensington & Chelsea ? Why should they be in London full stop, when decent people have to work hard to afford a mortgage on a nice house then watch its value drop as 'they' move in next door ?!......Utter lunacy.

mcm66

240 posts

180 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
developer said:
For some years now housing benefit rents (called Local Housing Allowance) have been paid according to what the claimant is entitled to - for example, a person living alone is entitled to the one bed rate.

They can rent the five bed house of their dreams, but they will only receive the one bed rate and will have to make up the rest themselves (which they obviously can't in my extreme example).

Also there are published rent bands, by council, for one bed, two bed, three bed etc and these are fixed maximum entitlements.

The days of the landlord getting whatever he/she set the rent at are long gone.
This, exactly. Days of landlords dictating rent and HB paying it are indeed long gone.

HB pay a local reference rent, the midpoint between lowest and highest rents while ignoring exceptionally high or exceptionally low rents. In addition 'bedroom tax' has been part of rent calculations for private landlord long before the term bedroom tax existed. Claimants payments are based on eligibility; single person/couple - 1 bedroom. Have a child, 2 bedrooms etc.

Reality is midpoint is not private rent midpoint, but includes affordable homes rent rates. What is paid is nowhere near going rate. Rent officer decision is final.

flyingvisit

235 posts

123 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
xjsdriver said:
It is only in the UK the we have a fixation on owning property. All over Europe the numbers of people that rent far outstrip those that own their properties.
If you cannot see that a generation or so ago, most working people could afford to buy their own home if they were of a mind to do so.....now being able to buy one's own home is out of reach to most working people on median salaries.
If you do not see this as a problem, then you are severely deluded, or simply have no bearing on reality.
Ok, so it's not confined to Europe, but 36th out of 45?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...



eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's the point. That option doesn't really work anymore.
For many years the house price to salary ratio was pretty stable. 3 times your salary and a small deposit got you on the housing ladder. Try that these days!