Solar Impulse 2
Discussion
Scuffers said:
Eric Mc said:
Hold on - we really don't know yet where something like this will lead. I certainly don't see much scope for solar powered jumbos any time soon - but how about solar powered unmanned ultra light weight drones that monitor the upper atmosphere for weeks at a time?
Or perhaps use a similar technique to roam the atmosphere of Mars - or Titan - or Jupiter?
err... Or perhaps use a similar technique to roam the atmosphere of Mars - or Titan - or Jupiter?
that sounds to me like an idea looking for an application rather than the application leading to a new innovative solution.
as for monitor the upper atmosphere for weeks at a time, what's wrong with weather balloons?
Aerostats able to stay on station for extremely extended periods have been proposed for ages for telecoms relay and long term surveillance but the technology is only now maturing as Solar Impulse (and others) are demonstrating. To use Bloodhound as a counterpoint seems strange - an interesting but in practical terms entirely pointless exercise.
DocJock said:
Re your pedantry, that is the historical definition, which has (according to Oxford Dictionaries) been superseded by the modern definition which you dislike.
Pah. The young whippersnappers at Oxford Dictionaries, what do they know? 
More seriously, the modern meanings go completely against the etymology of the words. Sad really.dirkgently said:
English its a patois, it changes, it lives.
I understand that completely. But these changes are based on ignorance rather than a new word coming in which is the sad thing. I suppose if enough people us a word incorrectly then that becomes the 'proper' meaning. My English teacher must be spinning in his grave. But we're going a bit O/T. Innit.rovermorris999 said:
dirkgently said:
English its a patois, it changes, it lives.
I understand that completely. But these changes are based on ignorance rather than a new word coming in which is the sad thing. I suppose if enough people us a word incorrectly then that becomes the 'proper' meaning. My English teacher must be spinning in his grave. But we're going a bit O/T. Innit.AnotherClarkey said:
Er - you can't control where they go?
Aerostats able to stay on station for extremely extended periods have been proposed for ages for telecoms relay and long term surveillance but the technology is only now maturing as Solar Impulse (and others) are demonstrating. To use Bloodhound as a counterpoint seems strange - an interesting but in practical terms entirely pointless exercise.
It's been / being done already?Aerostats able to stay on station for extremely extended periods have been proposed for ages for telecoms relay and long term surveillance but the technology is only now maturing as Solar Impulse (and others) are demonstrating. To use Bloodhound as a counterpoint seems strange - an interesting but in practical terms entirely pointless exercise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinetiq_Zephyr
AnotherClarkey said:
Er - you can't control where they go?
Aerostats able to stay on station for extremely extended periods have been proposed for ages for telecoms relay and long term surveillance but the technology is only now maturing as Solar Impulse (and others) are demonstrating.
100% agree. I have a book from 1979 which shows a picture of a hypothetical solar powered Mars aircraft. However, it's only now that the technology for such a craft is reaching the point where it could be feasible.Aerostats able to stay on station for extremely extended periods have been proposed for ages for telecoms relay and long term surveillance but the technology is only now maturing as Solar Impulse (and others) are demonstrating.
Oakey said:
AnotherClarkey said:
Er - you can't control where they go?
Aerostats able to stay on station for extremely extended periods have been proposed for ages for telecoms relay and long term surveillance but the technology is only now maturing as Solar Impulse (and others) are demonstrating. To use Bloodhound as a counterpoint seems strange - an interesting but in practical terms entirely pointless exercise.
It's been / being done already?Aerostats able to stay on station for extremely extended periods have been proposed for ages for telecoms relay and long term surveillance but the technology is only now maturing as Solar Impulse (and others) are demonstrating. To use Bloodhound as a counterpoint seems strange - an interesting but in practical terms entirely pointless exercise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinetiq_Zephyr
Scuffers said:
At what cost and what's the point?
All these applications are just pie in the sky (quite literally!)
The whole Solar Impulse programme cost just less than £100,000,000 - about what Lloyds got fined for PPI miss-selling or what a mid/back of the field F1 team spend in a year. The point can be cheap telecoms in areas with poor coverage and surveillance drones with unlimited loiter time. What is the point of Bloodhound?All these applications are just pie in the sky (quite literally!)
AnotherClarkey said:
The whole Solar Impulse programme cost just less than £100,000,000 - about what Lloyds got fined for PPI miss-selling or what a mid/back of the field F1 team spend in a year. The point can be cheap telecoms in areas with poor coverage and surveillance drones with unlimited loiter time. What is the point of Bloodhound?
your definition of cheap and mine are clearly at odds!as for bloodhound, well, quite apart from the educational value of the project, it's also providing read research data on ground vehicles running at supersonic speeds, something that will be very valuable for say, the next generation of high speed trains or the like.
It's in the same vein as the X series planes of the 1940's and 50's, they pushed the barriers of human knowledge forward.
spending £100M on a conventional plane with 4 electric motors/batteries and some solar panels is not.
You are obviously set in your mind on this. I am sure that this project is way more than a "stunt".
Whether any new ideas or technologies flows from it we will have to see - but I can see plenty of applications for the future of lightweight, solar powered drones on earth and some of the other planets (and even some moons) of the Solar System.
Staying in the air for 21 hours in such a craft is an achievement and just as much a record as exceeding 1,000 mph in a land vehicle. However, if we are to use unmanned solar powered aircraft that can remain airborne for days at a time, running a project like this will no doubt provide valuable lessons in how to control and manage such a system.
Whether any new ideas or technologies flows from it we will have to see - but I can see plenty of applications for the future of lightweight, solar powered drones on earth and some of the other planets (and even some moons) of the Solar System.
Staying in the air for 21 hours in such a craft is an achievement and just as much a record as exceeding 1,000 mph in a land vehicle. However, if we are to use unmanned solar powered aircraft that can remain airborne for days at a time, running a project like this will no doubt provide valuable lessons in how to control and manage such a system.
Eric Mc said:
You are obviously set in your mind on this. I am sure that this project is way more than a "stunt".
Whether any new ideas or technologies flows from it we will have to see - but I can see plenty of applications for the future of lightweight, solar powered drones on earth and some of the other planets (and even some moons) of the Solar System.
Staying in the air for 21 hours in such a craft is an achievement and just as much a record as exceeding 1,000 mph in a land vehicle. However, if we are to use unmanned solar powered aircraft that can remain airborne for days at a time, running a project like this will no doubt provide valuable lessons in how to control and manage such a system.
problem I have is it's learning nothing that has not already been done.Whether any new ideas or technologies flows from it we will have to see - but I can see plenty of applications for the future of lightweight, solar powered drones on earth and some of the other planets (and even some moons) of the Solar System.
Staying in the air for 21 hours in such a craft is an achievement and just as much a record as exceeding 1,000 mph in a land vehicle. However, if we are to use unmanned solar powered aircraft that can remain airborne for days at a time, running a project like this will no doubt provide valuable lessons in how to control and manage such a system.
Bert Rutan's Rutan Voyager was the first to fly around the world without stopping or refueling (1986) with a 216 hour endurance.
Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk autonomous UAV has an endurance of over 32 hours.
The former was pioneering, (read up on Burt's other planes) latter has a practical use.
so in the context of just these two examples, what exactly has this solar powered (and I bet the batteries were fully charged before takeoff) effort actually done to push the technology forward?
(I would have been more impressed if it had done it non-stop)
Scuffers said:
as for bloodhound, well, quite apart from the educational value of the project, it's also providing read research data on ground vehicles running at supersonic speeds, something that will be very valuable for say, the next generation of high speed trains or the like.
Supersonic high speed trains? And you say that applications using technology and data from Solar Impulse are 'pie in the sky'? What do you think would transfer from Bloodhound? The entirely conventional jet engine? The relatively conventional missile rocket motor? The wheels (probably not, a 1000mph train would likely be maglev or similar)? The aerodynamics (probably not, a 1000mph train would likely in in a vacuum tube)?I am not denigrating Bloodhound but would say that Solar Impulse has as much educational value and more practical relevance. And yes, I view £100,000,000 as relatively cheap for a 12 year programme delivering two aircraft demonstrating such effective integration of leading edge technologies.
AnotherClarkey said:
Supersonic high speed trains? And you say that applications using technology and data from Solar Impulse are 'pie in the sky'? What do you think would transfer from Bloodhound? The entirely conventional jet engine? The relatively conventional missile rocket motor? The wheels (probably not, a 1000mph train would likely be maglev or similar)? The aerodynamics (probably not, a 1000mph train would likely in in a vacuum tube)?
I am not denigrating Bloodhound but would say that Solar Impulse has as much educational value and more practical relevance. And yes, I view £100,000,000 as relatively cheap for a 12 year programme delivering two aircraft demonstrating such effective integration of leading edge technologies.
since you bring it up:I am not denigrating Bloodhound but would say that Solar Impulse has as much educational value and more practical relevance. And yes, I view £100,000,000 as relatively cheap for a 12 year programme delivering two aircraft demonstrating such effective integration of leading edge technologies.
Bloodhound is the moving test bed for the Nammo Rocket.
the aero data gained from Bloodhound will be the first real world data up to and beyond Mach 1 at ground level since the rocket sleds of the past.
Who knows how useful this will be even to high subsonic speed ground vehicles in the future? even if it end up being just a validation for CFD systems.
Yes it's EJ200 is nothing new, neither is the Jag V8 driving the fuel pump, or are you suggesting that every part has to be a prototype?
Back to the solar plane, name one bit of it's build that's new/cutting edge?
it uses conventional lithium polymer batteries, conventional brushless electric motors in a conventional constructed airframe, covered in conventional monocrystalline silicon cells.
it's certainly not the first solar powered plane either.
I have more time for Airbus's E-Fan.
Scuffers said:
(I would have been more impressed if it had done it non-stop)
Done what non-stop - a flight completely around the globe?I'm sure that will be done one day - but I'm sure you'll not be very impressed by that either. After all, Francis Chichester went all the way around the world using only the wind in 1967.
The fact that somebody else did something a a different way previously does not negate a similar achievement using different technology. The first non-stop flight around the world was NOT the Rutan Voyager. It was done by the USAF in the 1950s using air to air refueling. That did not reduce in any way what Voyager achieved. And the later flight by Steve Fossett more or less repeated what Voyager did - except the aircraft was jet powered and flown solo.
Do you consider that all these examples of similar flight s done in different ways are worthless once it was done for the first time using a different technique.
Eric Mc said:
The fact that somebody else did something a a different way previously does not negate a similar achievement using different technology. The first non-stop flight around the world was NOT the Rutan Voyager. It was done by the USAF in the 1950s using air to air refueling. That did not reduce in any way what Voyager achieved.
see this is the problem I have with this.we all know any plane with air-air refueling can stay aloft for as long as you have fuel tankers, nothing new there (unlike the first air-air refueling - 1923, between two Airco DH-4B biplanes).
Rutan's plane was the first to do it non-stop and without external support (ie, showing it's 216 hour endurance).
Like I keep trying to get across, what exactly is the new, cutting edge tech in this solar plane? what tech boundaries have been broken?
Scuffers said:
Like I keep trying to get across, what exactly is the new, cutting edge tech in this solar plane? what tech boundaries have been broken?
Why are you so fixated on the tech aspect? The boundaries that have been broken are in actually putting it all together and doing it, and the endurance achievements.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff