This is desperately sad and upsetting (Greek Crisis)
Discussion
ian in lancs said:
An interesting slant on the financial situation - France and Germany lend the money ensure its spent on French and German products and demand domestic expenditure cuts. Hmm, another reason to hate Merkel!
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/19/greec...
Can't resist this again. After tonight's win in Canada and remembering 1981 and the Norwegian commentator.http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/19/greec...
'Mrs Merkel, your girls took a hell of a beating tonight!'
Women's World Cup - Germany v England
I think there will be a lot more can kicking but ultimately I could see this ending in a war. Certainly a civil war but there could be a war with Germany.
I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
Mr_B said:
I'm not sure those who should care actually do about such people. They almost get looked down upon as a PR disaster when the focus is on keeping the Euro project alive.
If they do leave the Euro, they'll be made to suffer very very publicly - "Pour encourager les autres".If they stay in, the Syriza government will be replaced in another EU-backed coup and replaced with a puppet regime. Then the can kicking will continue.
Oh and Greek Finance Minister Varoufakis would be wise to give up his motorbike. I foresee a fatal road accident in his near future.
jonah35 said:
I think there will be a lot more can kicking but ultimately I could see this ending in a war. Certainly a civil war but there could be a war with Germany.
I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
Civil war? War with Germany.....Wow!!!!! You certainly are a monger of doom aren't you?I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
Beati Dogu said:
If they do leave the Euro, they'll be made to suffer very very publicly - "Pour encourager les autres".
If they stay in, the Syriza government will be replaced in another EU-backed coup and replaced with a puppet regime. Then the can kicking will continue.
Oh and Greek Finance Minister Varoufakis would be wise to give up his motorbike. I foresee a fatal road accident in his near future.
Given the cabal opposing his views - it may seem likely. I'd be going on bike rides with lots of biker type mates to feel safer....If they stay in, the Syriza government will be replaced in another EU-backed coup and replaced with a puppet regime. Then the can kicking will continue.
Oh and Greek Finance Minister Varoufakis would be wise to give up his motorbike. I foresee a fatal road accident in his near future.
This whole situation is very sad and I hope the Greeks prioritize providing a safety net for the most vulnerable in their society such as those too old to work and the genuinely disabled.
But after that they need to figure out how to service their debt and how much to provide in the way of services and benefits.
This does require collecting taxes and stopping people avoiding them.
If they aren't willing to do that then maybe they should just leave the EU and do their own thing.
Budgets,whether at a household, village, city, county or national level need to be mostly balanced and ideally in surplus to be sustainable, how people do not get this is beyond me.
But after that they need to figure out how to service their debt and how much to provide in the way of services and benefits.
This does require collecting taxes and stopping people avoiding them.
If they aren't willing to do that then maybe they should just leave the EU and do their own thing.
Budgets,whether at a household, village, city, county or national level need to be mostly balanced and ideally in surplus to be sustainable, how people do not get this is beyond me.
jonah35 said:
I think there will be a lot more can kicking but ultimately I could see this ending in a war. Certainly a civil war but there could be a war with Germany.
I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
War with Germany??I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
Put down the crack pipe. Absolute classic PH.
johnfm said:
jonah35 said:
I think there will be a lot more can kicking but ultimately I could see this ending in a war. Certainly a civil war but there could be a war with Germany.
I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
War with Germany??I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
Put down the crack pipe. Absolute classic PH.
glad some of us think the same way (even if we do have differing political viewpoints.... jonah35 said:
I think there will be a lot more can kicking but ultimately I could see this ending in a war. Certainly a civil war but there could be a war with Germany.
I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
I think it's time for you to say to yourself "I think I have had more than enough to drink tonight, I am going to bed".I think Greece has definitely done the ight thing by having a vote. It should be up to the people to democratically decide what they do. It should not be up to a few people in Germany, at the imf and ecb as that is completely u democratic. The people should decide their future.
If I was them I'd get out of the euro, suffer hardship (but retain dignity). They survived before the euro and they will survive after the euro.
Then other countries will be next in the firing line. This will go on for the next 20 years.
The narrative that the whole country retires at 40 and lives on ouzo and olives while dodging taxes is as simplistic and misleading as it sounds.
The country was bounced into the Euro by a fanatical political class both in Greece and the rest of the EU, and has suffered years of economic collapse as a result of the stubborn refusal of that same political class to accept that their project has failed.
The country was bounced into the Euro by a fanatical political class both in Greece and the rest of the EU, and has suffered years of economic collapse as a result of the stubborn refusal of that same political class to accept that their project has failed.
Inadvertent very telling quote from German finance guy in this piece.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11718...
Moaning that the Greeks have pissed away money on "expensive Daimler buses that go nowhere". And who manufactures expensive Daimler buses and thus got the money in the end? Oh...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11718...
Moaning that the Greeks have pissed away money on "expensive Daimler buses that go nowhere". And who manufactures expensive Daimler buses and thus got the money in the end? Oh...
krunchkin said:
Inadvertent very telling quote from German finance guy in this piece.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11718...
Moaning that the Greeks have pissed away money on "expensive Daimler buses that go nowhere". And who manufactures expensive Daimler buses and thus got the money in the end? Oh...
As the EU`s greatest contributor into EU coffers it was pretty much the Germans money in the first place, It was lent to Greece in the (now forlorn) hope that Greece would use it to drag their, basket case, corrupt, non productive, backward economy into the 21st century, and become a modern self sustaining / contributing member state in the EU. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11718...
Moaning that the Greeks have pissed away money on "expensive Daimler buses that go nowhere". And who manufactures expensive Daimler buses and thus got the money in the end? Oh...
Instead they used it to carry on their disastrous practices which have brought them to where they are now (No doubt using expensive Daimler buses bought in using the benefits cash they got from the EU to help get them there)
kapiteinlangzaam said:
I think theyll vote to leave.
I might be surprised.
I hope they vote to stay.
If they leave, the pain will be a lot worse for them.
Whether they stay in the EU or not, they are in for a great deal of self inflicted (with some help from the EU Zealots) pain. Only the Greeks can get themselves out of the position they have got themselves into, but that will take massive and painful change to the way they run their country, which it seems they don't want to do.I might be surprised.
I hope they vote to stay.
If they leave, the pain will be a lot worse for them.
As posted before, interesting times lay ahead.
Watching the Greek voting on't telly.
A man approaches the ballot box with his ballot paper, one of the female officials slides back what appears to be a book which is covering the slot, the man drops his ballot paper in the box and the woman slides the 'book' back again.
What's all that about?
Is there a Greek law which states inter alia that the slot must never be left exposed?
Who is paying for all this?
A man approaches the ballot box with his ballot paper, one of the female officials slides back what appears to be a book which is covering the slot, the man drops his ballot paper in the box and the woman slides the 'book' back again.
What's all that about?
Is there a Greek law which states inter alia that the slot must never be left exposed?
Who is paying for all this?
doosht said:
http://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/crying-gree...
It's times like this i really wish i was rich as i would damn well make sure this guy was alright.
Sadly, i'm on less than minimum wage (as a director of a declining business) and living at my mums as all my equity was lost in the split up with my son's mum and cant even afford to rent a place yet.
It really makes me want to do something to help. 77 years old - so sad. Imagine if it was your father. The desperation is gut wrenching.
There must be something we can do?
Brilliant!!It's times like this i really wish i was rich as i would damn well make sure this guy was alright.
Sadly, i'm on less than minimum wage (as a director of a declining business) and living at my mums as all my equity was lost in the split up with my son's mum and cant even afford to rent a place yet.
It really makes me want to do something to help. 77 years old - so sad. Imagine if it was your father. The desperation is gut wrenching.
There must be something we can do?
Sir, you are the master of the tongue in cheek comment!
Go to the top of the class.
It might be that Greece has other options. Putin has shown himself to look for gaps in the west's unity. If Greece votes no then any offer of assistance will be viewed with gratitude.
The west will then have to make a decision on what the value is of a stable state in that location. Greece is in NATO. The last time they left there were all sorts of changes, expensive changes, that had to be made to the plans.
The west will then have to make a decision on what the value is of a stable state in that location. Greece is in NATO. The last time they left there were all sorts of changes, expensive changes, that had to be made to the plans.
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