Good work Police Scotland

[Derek Smith]

KarlMac said:

Derek Smith said:

This is bizarre.

Are you really asking why we should wait for facts before blaming the call taker?

The police have, as pointed out, admitted that they failed in their duties. I think everyone is agreed on that.

The point, which I'm fairly certain now your deliberately avoiding, is highlighted above. The service have admitted liability. There is someone within that service that knows "I fked up" and is too much of a coward to come forward.

I worked with a company involved in passenger rail vehicles. We employed temps on not much more than minimum wage, when we had a motor detach in service (which could have potentially resulted in a massive derailment) guess what, the team responsible stood up and said "it was us, we fked up". This is from someone doing heavy manual labour on 10 hour shifts for min wage, so I don't think its unreasonable to expect the same from the Police.

As mentioned above, you don't have to search for very long to find numerous examples of Police closing ranks to protect themselves. Rotherham grooming scandal being one close to me.

Well that's confusing. I've said, and you have highlighted, that the police have admitted that they have failed the woman.

My point is that it might not be the call-taker's fault. I have said that it probably is, but that we don't know. Therefore there should be an investigation to discover if indeed s/he is at fault, partially or entirely.

You say that a team in railways stood up and took corporate responsibility. Well, good for them. That's what the police have done, and very quickly. Now they will be obliged to discover how to ensure it doesn't happen again. What more do you want from them?

How do you know that the call-taker, or the person who was responsible, has not put his/her hand up? Rhetorical question by the way as, obviously, you don't. Yet you still accuse them of being a coward. Don't you see how stupid that sounds? Neither you nor I have any idea of how the investigation is proceeding. The difference between us is that I have not made my mind up on scarce evidence.

In that event that the officer has put up their hand, there still is a process to go through, imposed on the police by regulation by the way.

It seems to me that you want the police to do what it has already done. Well, they've done it. My point, which I've belaboured for some time, is that it it might not be the call-taker's fault. If it is the call-taker's fault then they will be disciplined according to the regulations. Or do you want another Shoesmith?

If it is not the call-taker's fault, then the press won't bother to tell us as it won't sell papers.

Is it too much to ask for those who want to criticise me to read my posts? Rhetorical question by the way as, obviously, it is.

[anonymous-user]

Is it a skill some of us take for granted to be able to assess where there are information gaps in an incident / event?

I'm sure I even linked a summary from the chap who discovered the way we come up with stories and fill the unknown information voids through bias and flawed thinking for those who wish to obtain a greater insight into the way we work: http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/02/conclusions.asp...

[V8 Fettler]

La Liga said:

Is it a skill some of us take for granted to be able to assess where there are information gaps in an incident / event?

I'm sure I even linked a summary from the chap who discovered the way we come up with stories and fill the unknown information voids through bias and flawed thinking for those who wish to obtain a greater insight into the way we work: http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/02/conclusions.asp...

You are confusing the internet with real life.

[anonymous-user]

V8 Fettler said:

La Liga said:

Is it a skill some of us take for granted to be able to assess where there are information gaps in an incident / event?

I'm sure I even linked a summary from the chap who discovered the way we come up with stories and fill the unknown information voids through bias and flawed thinking for those who wish to obtain a greater insight into the way we work: http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/02/conclusions.asp...

You are confusing the internet with real life.

I don't think people suddenly become great thinkers outside the internet.

[V8 Fettler]

La Liga said:

V8 Fettler said:

La Liga said:

Is it a skill some of us take for granted to be able to assess where there are information gaps in an incident / event?

I'm sure I even linked a summary from the chap who discovered the way we come up with stories and fill the unknown information voids through bias and flawed thinking for those who wish to obtain a greater insight into the way we work: http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/02/conclusions.asp...

You are confusing the internet with real life.

I don't think people suddenly become great thinkers outside the internet.

You need to take your blinkers off and recognise that people have differing views. N, P and E is catholic.

[anonymous-user]

Opinions, speculation and views are fine. However, they require qualification and the assessment of their weight.

If something's unknown, it's unknown. If something unknown has a range of possibilities, it has a range of possibilities. This isn't some ambiguous situation down to interpretation. It's fact.

For example, we do not know what the call handler specifically did and did not do. There's no "different view" about it. It's clear, factually and absolutely the case.

The people with blinkers on are the ones who think they know unknowns.

[V8 Fettler]

La Liga said:

Opinions, speculation and views are fine. However, they require qualification and the assessment of their weight.

If something's unknown, it's unknown. If something unknown has a range of possibilities, it has a range of possibilities. This isn't some ambiguous situation down to interpretation. It's fact.

For example, we do not know what the call handler specifically did and did not do. There's no "different view" about it. It's clear, factually and absolutely the case.

The people with blinkers on are the ones who think they know unknowns.

The current situation is particularly ambiguous and there are as many different views on this thread as there are contributors. Without wishing to insult, have you considered that your thought processes may have become institutionalised by virtue of your training and experience?

[anonymous-user]

V8 Fettler said:

La Liga said:

Opinions, speculation and views are fine. However, they require qualification and the assessment of their weight.

If something's unknown, it's unknown. If something unknown has a range of possibilities, it has a range of possibilities. This isn't some ambiguous situation down to interpretation. It's fact.

For example, we do not know what the call handler specifically did and did not do. There's no "different view" about it. It's clear, factually and absolutely the case.

The people with blinkers on are the ones who think they know unknowns.

The current situation is particularly ambiguous and there are as many different views on this thread as there are contributors. Without wishing to insult, have you considered that your thought processes may have become institutionalised by virtue of your training and experience?

Exactly. In order for there to be ambiguity we must have unknowns. There are elements which are unknown. Whether or not certain information is known or not isn't a subjective view. It's clear cut and factual. We do not know specifically what the call handler did or did not do. Whoever on here an opinion or view as to the specifics should realise it's pretty much meaningless and speculative.

There's no doubt positive and negative influences in my thinking from my training and experience. One positive is to highly critical of information and assess knowns and unknowns, and to question everything and assume nothing. The grading and 'quality' of information is a frequent and reoccurring since it's often framed against high criminal evidential thresholds.

[Kinky]

Guys, keep it civil and polite please. Otherwise, just don't bother. Its totally unnecessary and unwarranted.

I'll be happy to remove more from this thread.

One and only notice.

[joeg]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-cent...

Poor family, Police Scotland get it wrong yet again

[RobinOakapple]

Let he who has never made a mistake cast the first stone.

[RichB]

Meanwhile, former Chief Constable of Thames Valley Police, Sara Thornton who is now in the £252,000 per year role as the head of the National Police Chiefs Council says Police may no longer attend burglaries.

BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33676308

She said it "could be" that if an iPad was stolen from a home an officer would not come round to investigate. If however they used it to call them a nasty name on Twitter they'd be round like a flash!

[anonymous-user]

RobinOakapple said:

Let he who has never made a mistake cast the first stone.

Misquote all you like, people who make serious mistakes in their professional life should be criticised, disciplined and prevented from repeating their mistakes.

"Lessons will be learned" and all that......but they rarely appear to be, sadly.

[Janluke]

They're not having a good month are they

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3177104/Po...

[ikarl]

RobinOakapple said:

Let he who has never made a mistake cast the first stone.

There's a difference between a mistake and multiple fk ups.

One of which potentially cost someone their life.

[anonymous-user]

ch108 said:

Another police error involving the family of the woman who died after the M9 crash
http://m.stv.tv/news/1325467-police-left-voicemail...

Keep up at the back, that's what is being discussed...

[ch108]

REALIST123 said:

ch108 said:

Another police error involving the family of the woman who died after the M9 crash
http://m.stv.tv/news/1325467-police-left-voicemail...

Keep up at the back, that's what is being discussed...

Sorry didn't see the other link. Was too busy trying to skim over the arguing on previous pages.

Totally unbelievable they could make another error involving this family.

[RobinOakapple]

ikarl said:

RobinOakapple said:

Let he who has never made a mistake cast the first stone.

There's a difference between a mistake and multiple fk ups.

One of which potentially cost someone their life.

So what would you like to have happen as a result of this?

Public floggings, culprits exposed, dismissed, humiliated, the Scottish police disbanded and replaced with a security firm, what is the aim of those who are up in arms about this unfortunate series of events?

If anyone replies that they want the mistakes to stop, then I suggest they are hoping for the impossible.

[Janluke]

RobinOakapple said:

So what would you like to have happen as a result of this?

Public floggings, culprits exposed, dismissed, humiliated, the Scottish police disbanded and replaced with a security firm, what is the aim of those who are up in arms about this unfortunate series of events?

If anyone replies that they want the mistakes to stop, then I suggest they are hoping for the impossible.

I want the mistakes reduced as much as possible which means we(or rather they) need to know why these FUs are happening.

If staff are making errors because they are lazy or just incompetent they they need to go however if the system is wrong or they are underfunded, understaffed or under trained then I don't think staff should be scapegoated.

I dislike the public baying for blood in these situations as the last thing we need is experienced staff getting the push just to satisfy public opinion.

But clearly something went wrong, my personal belief based on nothing other than gut feeling is we need more police doing police work and more back room staff supporting them. We need to pay more for that. I'm far from a lefty but I'd pay more tax to properly fund the police, nhs, defence and education system

[Elroy Blue]

Janluke said:

.But clearly something went wrong, my personal belief based on nothing other than gut feeling is we need more police doing police work and more back room staff supporting them. We need to pay more for that. I'm far from a lefty but I'd pay more tax to properly fund the police, nhs, defence and education system

You'll not get far on PH with that kind of attitude