Tube Strike

[crankedup]

Neil H said:

crankedup said:

ATG said:

crankedup said:

Same old stuff trotted out last time the Tories were in Government. The truth of the matter is that the Tories will not be satisfied until the last of the Unions has disappeared under a swamp of legislation. Zero worker representation is not the way forward imo.

Predicated on an out-dated "them and us" view of the world. The world has moved on.

This is true, the World has moved on, but not in a good way. Maybe time to turn back the clock a little.
Still the same old Tory ideology, whichever way you want to cut it. Even the German workers have had enough of the feeling of being 'under the thumb'.

Unions: helping people manage their inferiority complexes for a hundred years.

Did you make that up or read it in the Beano ready to regurgitate in here? Either way it demonstrates your troll like qualities or your knowledge of the history regarding worker representation is lamentable.

[crankedup]

REALIST123 said:

crankedup said:

blueg33 said:

crankedup said:

AMG Merc said:

blueg33 said:

...there is so much legislation protecting workers that in reality unions are irrelevant today, and the strikes we see are led by the dinosaurs gasping for their final breath.

Very true as mentioned earlier - comprehensive UK and EU employee protection has evolved on all levels - so unions have no place in 2015 and beyond

Quite an assertion! there will always be a place for worker representation so long as we have workers and bosses. The bosses will always want to extract the maximum output and quality from the workers whilst the workers will always want a better deal from the boss.
The current Governments rabid ideology for removing Unions from the work landscape is not forward thinking or democratic.

We employ 7000 people, we have no unions, we have an excellent staff retention rate, we comply with the law.

And the Company pay very good rates, generous holiday's, sick pay, good employee training, in-house promotions, health scheme, profit sharing and blah blah blah. Great, pity more Companies like this are not operating in a similar mode. And if all Companies acted like it we wouldn't need worker representation. Utopia sadly does not exist.

Just like the LU, eh, yet the 'workers' there still feel the need to have a union and to blackmail the company as often as they can.

Another deeply considered point, has it been made in this thread before? yes I think it has

[crankedup]

blueg33 said:

REALIST123 said:

crankedup said:

blueg33 said:

crankedup said:

AMG Merc said:

blueg33 said:

...there is so much legislation protecting workers that in reality unions are irrelevant today, and the strikes we see are led by the dinosaurs gasping for their final breath.

Very true as mentioned earlier - comprehensive UK and EU employee protection has evolved on all levels - so unions have no place in 2015 and beyond

Quite an assertion! there will always be a place for worker representation so long as we have workers and bosses. The bosses will always want to extract the maximum output and quality from the workers whilst the workers will always want a better deal from the boss.
The current Governments rabid ideology for removing Unions from the work landscape is not forward thinking or democratic.

We employ 7000 people, we have no unions, we have an excellent staff retention rate, we comply with the law.

And the Company pay very good rates, generous holiday's, sick pay, good employee training, in-house promotions, health scheme, profit sharing and blah blah blah. Great, pity more Companies like this are not operating in a similar mode. And if all Companies acted like it we wouldn't need worker representation. Utopia sadly does not exist.

Just like the LU, eh, yet the 'workers' there still feel the need to have a union and to blackmail the company as often as they can.

Exactly my point!

So its fine to use a wider context as in making your point (your Company) but when that point is countered you focus back into minutiae. Hmmmmm.

[legzr1]

Chlamydia said:

So I gave in and joined the RMT

Good lad


Funny thing is, this whole thread is dotted with posts claiming the jobs are easy, the work unchallenging and the only reason staff are paid as much as they are is because of union interaction and threats of strikes 'every month' - some (now mysteriously silent) posters even suggested that LUL wages were over twice as high as they should be - again, because of heavily unionised meddling.
But you're suggesting that the wage and T&Cs that attracted you to the post has absolutely nothing to do with former staff and the Union representing them?

[Slaav]

FFS - anybody that can't see the Politics in this and the whole dispute is truly deluded.

There are 2 posters that spring to mind 'defending' the workers/members.

Are you really saying their behaviour is acceptable? (I think you have both suggested empathy)

Feel free to answer or not? Your call..... Hence deliberately no names!




And not that anybody cares but I'm close to sweeping generalisations again (that doesn't fill me with warmth)

[technodup]

Chlamydia said:

The part I've put in bold I'd like to point out is absolutely not PH BS, I was told several times that I would have to join a union and when I declined I suddenly found that various tasks that I needed other people to do would not be done, resulting in me not being able to do my job properly. Nobody ever overtly said 'closed shop' but that's what it boiled down to. So I gave in and joined the RMT and miraculously the tasks that weren't being carried out were suddenly no longer a problem.

I was going to make that point when our resident rep made the 6.5m members claim but it's so much better he's now getting it tight from one of his own.

[legzr1]

crankedup said:

So its fine to use a wider context as in making your point (your Company) but when that point is countered you focus back into minutiae. Hmmmmm.

I'm still waiting for blueg to explain how RMT intend to force ASLEF drivers out on strike over in FGW land

[Slaav]

legzr1 said:

crankedup said:

So its fine to use a wider context as in making your point (your Company) but when that point is countered you focus back into minutiae. Hmmmmm.

I'm still waiting for blueg to explain how RMT intend to force ASLEF drivers out on strike over in FGW land

And no union has ever 'encouraged' other 'members' to behave like ....... Union members - as in secondary picketing etc


I know this is different but did anybody listen to Chlamydia above?

[legzr1]

technodup said:

was going to make that point when our resident rep made the 6.5m members claim but it's so much better he's now getting it tight from one of his own.

No you weren't - you had nothing to say (again) and no post to make (again) and now you think someone who isn't in my union, doesn't work for my company, doesn't do my job and joined a union for questionable reasons is somehow 'giving me it'.

You're hilarious

I'm guessing you googled the '6.5M claim'?
Yes?



Anything else?

[Blib]

^^^^ What is it with you and smilies? etc. etc.

[legzr1]

Slaav said:

And no union has ever 'encouraged' other 'members' to behave like ....... Union members - as in secondary picketing etc

I was suggesting that (yet again...) someone has posted absolute claptrap and hasn't even noticed that a certain union has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with FGW drivers - I've asked him twice to clarify and he still hasn't responded.

I was under the impression that secondary picketing was illegal...

[legzr1]

Blib said:

^^^^ What is it with you and smilies? etc. etc.

I like them.

[technodup]

legzr1 said:

No you weren't - you had nothing to say (again) and no post to make (again) and now you think someone who isn't in my union, doesn't work for my company, doesn't do my job and joined a union for questionable reasons is somehow 'giving me it'.

I didn't because I knew your response would be defence as per. My brother and friend have been in a similar situation with a different union, it seems there's a common MO.

Clamydia might not do your job but he's closer to the issue at hand than anyone else here afaik. You've been defending tube workers for 37 pages so you can hardly cite distance from it now ffs. You're taking it tight because you are fighting a losing battle, it's only you who can't see it.

And overuse of smilies is the mark of a moron.

[Slaav]

legzr1 said:

Slaav said:

And no union has ever 'encouraged' other 'members' to behave like ....... Union members - as in secondary picketing etc

I was suggesting that (yet again...) someone has posted absolute claptrap and hasn't even noticed that a certain union has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with FGW drivers - I've asked him twice to clarify and he still hasn't responded.

I was under the impression that secondary picketing was illegal...

Of course it is illegal but the giant leap from chlamydia's anecdotal story is certainly reminiscent of secondary picketing.

The basic principal being made is don't hide behind pedantry? I work in an office but even though I am cocooned from the 'play pen' I know what's going on and wouldn't be stupid enough to preach untruths when common sense and basic feel can clearly demonstrate that a position may be wrong?

At the end of the day, sometimes a duck actually is a duck ..... Even if it pretends not to quack?

[legzr1]

technodup said:

didn't because I knew your response would be defence as per. My brother and friend have been in a similar situation with a different union, it seems there's a common MO.

Wow - so that's three examples compared to the hundreds I know - more prevalent than I thought.

technodup said:

Clamydia might not do your job

Finally, you got something correct.

technodup said:

. You've been defending tube workers for 37 pages so you can hardly cite distance from it now ffs. You're taking it tight because you are fighting a losing battle, it's only you who can't see it.

Cite distance?

Are you insane?

I defended tube workers against a barrage of ill-informed garbage posted on here (a lot of it from you).
I suggested that the other member you mentioned didn't share my job so don't go getting all concerned over it.

I might well be losing a 'battle' but, rest assured, it's not from the blanks you've aimed in my direction

technodup said:

And overuse of smilies is the mark of a moron.

A moron?

I'm hurt.

Tell me, what's the sign of an ignorant member posting shallow quips without fact or point?

[legzr1]

Slaav said:

Of course it is illegal but the giant leap from chlamydia's anecdotal story is certainly reminiscent of secondary picketing.

The basic principal being made is don't hide behind pedantry? I work in an office but even though I am cocooned from the 'play pen' I know what's going on and wouldn't be stupid enough to preach untruths when common sense and basic feel can clearly demonstrate that a position may be wrong?

At the end of the day, sometimes a duck actually is a duck ..... Even if it pretends not to quack?

It's getting late, I'm tired and not entirely sure what you mean when you mention hiding behind pedantry...

[technodup]

legzr1 said:

I might well be losing a 'battle' but, rest assured, it's not from the blanks you've aimed in my direction

You clearly have more knowledge then most here, but it hasn't helped you to answer any of the big questions the less informed have put to you.

And the less informed are the majority who aren't interested in the minutiae of petty union point scoring- all they're seeing (rightly or wrongly) is already well remunerated workers holding London to ransom for a few extra quid.

And the point I made about perception is valid, politicians will do almost anything if they think there are votes in it. It doesn't take a genius to think if public opinion is vehemently against strikes they might make changes to either outlaw them or to bring forward whatever measures are needed to reduce reliance on unionised workers. It's turkeys voting for Xmas.

I'm just glad I don't have to work in a job where someone else tells me what to do, when to do it, how much I'll be paid and when I can retire. Fight for more rights all you like, it still sounds like a prison sentence to me.

[legzr1]

technodup said:

ou clearly have more knowledge then most here, but it hasn't helped you to answer any of the big questions the less informed have put to you.

Sorry, I thought I'd answered most questions at length but it's possible I've missed a few genuine questions amongst all the bile and bullst.

technodup said:

And the less informed are the majority who aren't interested in the minutiae of petty union point scoring- all they're seeing (rightly or wrongly) is already well remunerated workers holding London to ransom for a few extra quid.

Nothing I can do about the perception of strangers - for the record, and at the risk of repeating it all again.... It's good that Aslef and TSSA have cancelled or,postponed action - from what I've heard, they've got the reassurances they were seeking over rostering and work/life balances.

Unfortunately, the bigger union seem to be leveraging for greater things - I've already said that if this is for reasonable compensation for changes to unsocial hours then best of luck to them. However, if it's in relation to,previous disputes over wages and technology then, personally, I don't agree with it.

Hope that's clarified things.

technodup said:

And the point I made about perception is valid, politicians will do almost anything if they think there are votes in it. It doesn't take a genius to think if public opinion is vehemently against strikes they might make changes to either outlaw them or to bring forward whatever measures are needed to reduce reliance on unionised workers. It's turkeys voting for Xmas.

When you come to realise that the whole point of industrial action is to make things as awkward as possible you'll start to understand that those on strike accept there will be hostility but will deal with it.

I know you don't like it but LUL workers are in an enviable position where they're difficult to replace cheaply or quickly, they're organised and they know how to use their leverage.

Threats of replacement with automated systems are empty threats for at least three decades and it would be a brave politician who would seek to ban industrial action for LUL staff.

technodup said:

I'm just glad I don't have to work in a job where someone else tells me what to do, when to do it, how much I'll be paid and when I can retire. Fight for more rights all you like, it still sounds like a prison sentence to me.

Good for you.

Others are happy with £50K, a set routine, great annual leave, free rail travel and a nice pension allowing some of my colleagues to leave at 55 - so happy that they've cancelled industrial action are are willing and ready to return.

It's a shame that some on £23K still aren't happy but I'm sure it'll all come out in the wash.

[CorbynFTW]

If you read the responses to the announcement by Boris on twitter that the strike has been postponed, they're ~90% anti union...


Funny that ain't it.

[Blib]

Taken in isolation, these strikes could possibly be justified. However, we Londoners have suffered decades of such action.

We know the score. We're not idiots. The tube union leaders are notoriously political. Funny how these strikes have been ramped up since the Tories got an overall majority.

Smilie -------->