Discussion
All this talk about 'not needing Unions' its the 21st century, imo industry comes and goes on a cyclical trend. Sure, some things change and automation comes along, but Unions will still have a place within industry, so long as bosses want maximum output for minimum cost, not to mention workers wanting better T&C upon Company changes and profits increasing. Can't see many Companies increasing pay and improving conditions for workers voluntarily, with the Honourable exception of Lidl.
crankedup said:
All this talk about 'not needing Unions' its the 21st century, imo industry comes and goes on a cyclical trend. Sure, some things change and automation comes along, but Unions will still have a place within industry, so long as bosses want maximum output for minimum cost, not to mention workers wanting better T&C upon Company changes and profits increasing. Can't see many Companies increasing pay and improving conditions for workers voluntarily, with the Honourable exception of Lidl.
Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.
Du1point8 said:
Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.
+1Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.
He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying b
ds that make everyones life a misery. andymadmak said:
Du1point8 said:
Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.
+1Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.
He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying b
ds that make everyones life a misery. If you wear overalls and get your hands dirty, then there's still quite a Victorian attitude to the workforce and many managers I've experienced almost expect you to tug your forelock every time you see them.
Things are improving these days, but not much. Many of the improvements being made are purely so they can comply with things like ISO9001 etc, not out of the goodness of their hearts.
I'm a realist and know when times are hard we all go the extra mile to help out, but it's quite hard to stomach when company literature sets out their core values of exellence and proffessionalism, yet the reality is quite different.
eccles said:
andymadmak said:
Du1point8 said:
Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.
+1Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.
He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying b
ds that make everyones life a misery. If you wear overalls and get your hands dirty, then there's still quite a Victorian attitude to the workforce and many managers I've experienced almost expect you to tug your forelock every time you see them.
Things are improving these days, but not much. Many of the improvements being made are purely so they can comply with things like ISO9001 etc, not out of the goodness of their hearts.
I'm a realist and know when times are hard we all go the extra mile to help out, but it's quite hard to stomach when company literature sets out their core values of exellence and proffessionalism, yet the reality is quite different.
OK, only joking, but if that's how you've found things then I am genuinely surprised. Just about everyone I know that is involved in engineering is struggling to get the right people, so tend to really try to hold onto the good ones when they find them. That being said, it's a tough world out there, and sometimes what people want is simply not possible for the employer to give (at least not without major implications to either the business or the prospects for other employees in the company)
eccles said:
My experience working in a skilled environment fixing aircraft has been that every employer I've had has lied and tried all sorts of weasel moves to get out of giving a payrise.
If you wear overalls and get your hands dirty, then there's still quite a Victorian attitude to the workforce and many managers I've experienced almost expect you to tug your forelock every time you see them.
Things are improving these days, but not much. Many of the improvements being made are purely so they can comply with things like ISO9001 etc, not out of the goodness of their hearts.
I'm a realist and know when times are hard we all go the extra mile to help out, but it's quite hard to stomach when company literature sets out their core values of exellence and proffessionalism, yet the reality is quite different.
Agree with that.If you wear overalls and get your hands dirty, then there's still quite a Victorian attitude to the workforce and many managers I've experienced almost expect you to tug your forelock every time you see them.
Things are improving these days, but not much. Many of the improvements being made are purely so they can comply with things like ISO9001 etc, not out of the goodness of their hearts.
I'm a realist and know when times are hard we all go the extra mile to help out, but it's quite hard to stomach when company literature sets out their core values of exellence and proffessionalism, yet the reality is quite different.
I was never a union fan (and am still not) but, since I became a bus driver, ive found employers will try their very best to cut terms and conditions.
Alot of us are not 'high flyers' and cannot demand top money for our services, so we need unions to help maintain our T+C's.
Du1point8 said:
crankedup said:
All this talk about 'not needing Unions' its the 21st century, imo industry comes and goes on a cyclical trend. Sure, some things change and automation comes along, but Unions will still have a place within industry, so long as bosses want maximum output for minimum cost, not to mention workers wanting better T&C upon Company changes and profits increasing. Can't see many Companies increasing pay and improving conditions for workers voluntarily, with the Honourable exception of Lidl.
Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.sidicks said:
Of course employers want to increase the salaries of the better employees who are actually adding value to the business, not be forced to provide the same increases to everyone regardless of what value they add.
And how does that fit in with, say, tube drivers?All doing the same job for the same wage and same T&Cs.
andymadmak said:
eccles said:
andymadmak said:
Du1point8 said:
Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.
+1Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.
He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying b
ds that make everyones life a misery. If you wear overalls and get your hands dirty, then there's still quite a Victorian attitude to the workforce and many managers I've experienced almost expect you to tug your forelock every time you see them.
Things are improving these days, but not much. Many of the improvements being made are purely so they can comply with things like ISO9001 etc, not out of the goodness of their hearts.
I'm a realist and know when times are hard we all go the extra mile to help out, but it's quite hard to stomach when company literature sets out their core values of exellence and proffessionalism, yet the reality is quite different.
OK, only joking, but if that's how you've found things then I am genuinely surprised. Just about everyone I know that is involved in engineering is struggling to get the right people, so tend to really try to hold onto the good ones when they find them. That being said, it's a tough world out there, and sometimes what people want is simply not possible for the employer to give (at least not without major implications to either the business or the prospects for other employees in the company)
Managers lying to your face saying 'I didn't say that', yet the union reps have the email from him saying exactly what he denied saying earlier! Some managers really are that stupid.
By and large we're not a militant bunch,(you always get the odd one or two), so voting for industrial action is always a last resort, yet managers simply don't want to talk or negotiate, constantly cancel meetings at the last minute,then act like they're the innocent parties.
That's what often makes me laugh on this forum, people give forth their opinions based on their experience, and expect it to be the same right accross the sector.
TFL with an agenda says 3
Media likes a story and says 3
Union who actually ran the vote says 24
How would TFL or media even know the ballot detail, or who are and are not union members?
I'm a Union member and my employer would not be aware of that never mind what I had voted.
I'm sure Union has an agenda too but these 'storys' are just that.
Media likes a story and says 3
Union who actually ran the vote says 24
How would TFL or media even know the ballot detail, or who are and are not union members?
I'm a Union member and my employer would not be aware of that never mind what I had voted.
I'm sure Union has an agenda too but these 'storys' are just that.
andymadmak said:
Du1point8 said:
Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.
+1Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.
He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying b
ds that make everyones life a misery. To write this is just another example of how some posters like to speak untruths and exaggerate. I have never said 'ALL BUSINESSES' I have never said 'ALL BOSSES'. Can't expect you to retract or even admit your gross interpretation of my POV, but it does tell me more about you and the type of person you are.
eccles said:
andymadmak said:
Du1point8 said:
Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.
+1Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.
He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying b
ds that make everyones life a misery. If you wear overalls and get your hands dirty, then there's still quite a Victorian attitude to the workforce and many managers I've experienced almost expect you to tug your forelock every time you see them.
Things are improving these days, but not much. Many of the improvements being made are purely so they can comply with things like ISO9001 etc, not out of the goodness of their hearts.
I'm a realist and know when times are hard we all go the extra mile to help out, but it's quite hard to stomach when company literature sets out their core values of exellence and proffessionalism, yet the reality is quite different.
Right now there are some very nasty pieces of s
te out there calling themselves businesses. They operate like a cancer and are infecting our Country with dreadful conditions of work and pay. I know this from experiences within our family and the misfortune of having worked for some of these so called businesses. Strap lines simply do not have anything whatsoever to do with the morals and ethics of SOME of these Companies.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff