Tube Strike

[sidicks]

legzr1 said:

And how does that fit in with, say, tube drivers?

All doing the same job for the same wage and same T&Cs.

Where did I aim this at tube drivers specifically...?

[andymadmak]

eccles said:

andymadmak said:

eccles said:

andymadmak said:

Du1point8 said:

Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.

+1

Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.

He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying bds that make everyones life a misery.

My experience working in a skilled environment fixing aircraft has been that every employer I've had has lied and tried all sorts of weasel moves to get out of giving a pay rise.
If you wear overalls and get your hands dirty, then there's still quite a Victorian attitude to the workforce and many managers I've experienced almost expect you to tug your forelock every time you see them.

Things are improving these days, but not much. Many of the improvements being made are purely so they can comply with things like ISO9001 etc, not out of the goodness of their hearts.

I'm a realist and know when times are hard we all go the extra mile to help out, but it's quite hard to stomach when company literature sets out their core values of exellence and proffessionalism, yet the reality is quite different.

Ever thought it might be you?....
OK, only joking, but if that's how you've found things then I am genuinely surprised. Just about everyone I know that is involved in engineering is struggling to get the right people, so tend to really try to hold onto the good ones when they find them. That being said, it's a tough world out there, and sometimes what people want is simply not possible for the employer to give (at least not without major implications to either the business or the prospects for other employees in the company)

I'm no raving leftie, but I liked to be treated with a little respect for my experience and skills, and so do many of my colleagues. We take exception to being treated like mugs.
Managers lying to your face saying 'I didn't say that', yet the union reps have the email from him saying exactly what he denied saying earlier! Some managers really are that stupid.
By and large we're not a militant bunch,(you always get the odd one or two), so voting for industrial action is always a last resort, yet managers simply don't want to talk or negotiate, constantly cancel meetings at the last minute,then act like they're the innocent parties.

That's what often makes me laugh on this forum, people give forth their opinions based on their experience, and expect it to be the same right accross the sector.

All fair enough. To be honest people in general ( managers and workers) are a mix of good and bad, and I am frequently amazed by the attitudes that some do display to colleagues. There is no need for it, and I say that as a manager who does try to ensure that all my staff are treated with respect. Honesty and decency are a vital part of employer/employee relations. Sometimes it still goes wrong, but then you cant win them all.

[andymadmak]

crankedup said:

andymadmak said:

Du1point8 said:

Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.

+1

Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.

He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying bds that make everyones life a misery.

Twisted and untrue.
To write this is just another example of how some posters like to speak untruths and exaggerate. I have never said 'ALL BUSINESSES' I have never said 'ALL BOSSES'. Can't expect you to retract or even admit your gross interpretation of my POV, but it does tell me more about you and the type of person you are.

Yes, OK I accept that I exagerated your point of view. No intention to offend you Cranky, so happy to apologise if I did. But perhaps you would at least concede that you do seem to save your most pungent ire for those you deem to be bosses.

As I said to Eccles, there are good and bad at all levels. Being a bad worker is no more excusable than being a bad boss - can we at least agree on that?

[legzr1]

sidicks said:

Where did I aim this at tube drivers specifically...?

Sorry, didn't realise it was another sidicks tangent.

[legzr1]

Rick101 said:

Thought you were a driver or TOC guy?
Payments are not necessarily through payroll.

Edited by Rick101 on Thursday 24th September 21:27

I think he's posted on here saying he's quite capable of being a driver and would find the examinations quite simple to pass but is colour blind or something.

And you're correct - the largest FOC in the country stopped payment of union subs direct from pay some time ago after a childish spat - subs are now paid directly to the union from the member and have nothing to do with the employer.

[crankedup]

andymadmak said:

crankedup said:

andymadmak said:

Du1point8 said:

Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.

+1

Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.

He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying bds that make everyones life a misery.

Twisted and untrue.
To write this is just another example of how some posters like to speak untruths and exaggerate. I have never said 'ALL BUSINESSES' I have never said 'ALL BOSSES'. Can't expect you to retract or even admit your gross interpretation of my POV, but it does tell me more about you and the type of person you are.

Yes, OK I accept that I exagerated your point of view. No intention to offend you Cranky, so happy to apologise if I did. But perhaps you would at least concede that you do seem to save your most pungent ire for those you deem to be bosses.

As I said to Eccles, there are good and bad at all levels. Being a bad worker is no more excusable than being a bad boss - can we at least agree on that?

Thank you.
We can certainly agree your point regarding bad workers, and I go further by saying that bad workers being 'saved' by a Union is entirely wrong on all counts imo.
As for bosses, its true I read about and have personally witnessed so many examples of bullying, offensive behaviour and general wrong toward workers doing by some Company bosses I must appear cynical. Problem on forums is one cannot name and shame.
Sure there are some great bosses around of course, those that steer a good business to be better and recognise the workers efforts within the team. I particularly point to Lidl demonstrating, with actions and words, just this M.O. with staff. On the other side of the fence we have businesses like T**** who treat staff like dirt.

[Stedman]

legzr1 said:

Stedman said:

Ballot result/ 'result' aside, I love how the drivers get blamed for EVERYTHING.

Cleaners farted in the wrong place? DRIVER'S FAULT!

That was the thrust of my post

UP THE UNION

[crankedup]

sidicks said:

Du1point8 said:

crankedup said:

All this talk about 'not needing Unions' its the 21st century, imo industry comes and goes on a cyclical trend. Sure, some things change and automation comes along, but Unions will still have a place within industry, so long as bosses want maximum output for minimum cost, not to mention workers wanting better T&C upon Company changes and profits increasing. Can't see many Companies increasing pay and improving conditions for workers voluntarily, with the Honourable exception of Lidl.

Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.

Of course employers want to increase the salaries of the better employees who are actually adding value to the business, not be forced to provide the same increases to everyone regardless of what value they add.

That is fairly obvious TBH, good Companies place much emphasis upon teams with team performance within judgemental bites. Fairly easy to pin point the consistent slacker within smaller teams and then take the required disciplinary actions.

[sidicks]

legzr1 said:

sidicks said:

Where did I aim this at tube drivers specifically...?

Sorry, didn't realise it was another sidicks tangent.

No tangent required -the previous 10+ posts were all discussing Unions (and Companies) more generally.

Sorry you aren't clever enough to keep up with the discussion!!

[SpeedMattersNot]

Still spending more time on selecting emoticons than your post content, I see, sidicks.

[sidicks]

SpeedMattersNot said:

Still spending more time on selecting emoticons than your post content, I see, sidicks.

No, it's very quick to add an emoticon to a post.

HTH

[Slaav]

crankedup said:

Thank you.
We can certainly agree your point regarding bad workers, and I go further by saying that bad workers being 'saved' by a Union is entirely wrong on all counts imo.
As for bosses, its true I read about and have personally witnessed so many examples of bullying, offensive behaviour and general wrong toward workers doing by some Company bosses I must appear cynical. Problem on forums is one cannot name and shame.
Sure there are some great bosses around of course, those that steer a good business to be better and recognise the workers efforts within the team. I particularly point to Lidl demonstrating, with actions and words, just this M.O. with staff. On the other side of the fence we have businesses like T**** who treat staff like dirt.

Is that you Cranked or has your account been hacked???

Btw, if T**** are so cr4p the why not work for Lidl? Just go and get a job there????

[legzr1]

sidicks said:

No tangent required -the previous 10+ posts were all discussing Unions (and Companies) more generally.

Sorry you aren't clever enough to keep up with the discussion!!

Four out of the previous five posts just before your useful input disagreed with your point.

A tangent to nowhere it seems and as helpful as ever - what a clever chap

[CorbynFTW]

andymadmak said:

Du1point8 said:

Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.

+1

Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.

He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying bds that make everyones life a misery.

Yup. I was given a mid year pay rise this year of 11%, which is rare at my place - we usually only get the year end increase (which I'll still get and will be a bit bigger again, based on performance). There are some who get nothing at all in the firm, that's because they're under performing.

So they think of me as being very good at my job, and pay me more as a reward - perfect.

People who are useless get nothing, effectively a real terms cut - perfect.

Who should all get a pay rise?

[crankedup]

Slaav said:

crankedup said:

Thank you.
We can certainly agree your point regarding bad workers, and I go further by saying that bad workers being 'saved' by a Union is entirely wrong on all counts imo.
As for bosses, its true I read about and have personally witnessed so many examples of bullying, offensive behaviour and general wrong toward workers doing by some Company bosses I must appear cynical. Problem on forums is one cannot name and shame.
Sure there are some great bosses around of course, those that steer a good business to be better and recognise the workers efforts within the team. I particularly point to Lidl demonstrating, with actions and words, just this M.O. with staff. On the other side of the fence we have businesses like T**** who treat staff like dirt.

Is that you Cranked or has your account been hacked???

Btw, if T**** are so cr4p the why not work for Lidl? Just go and get a job there????

Oh yes, its the real me. See its only my venomous posts which are remembered and then people base judgements on them alone. My politics will always favour toward working people, but this is not meaning I value and support wasters.

So far as my two examples of good and bad go, they are only examples to be kept in context with my posts. I no longer need to work, being retired, but choose to start a small self employed business for interest and keeps me out of mischief.

[crankedup]

CorbynFTW said:

andymadmak said:

Du1point8 said:

Every company I have worked at have increased pay on voluntary basis, even improved the building to have better conditions.

+1

Cranky thinks that all businesses are inherently untrustworthy, and all bosses wear stove pipe hats and spend their days plotting how to do down the people that work for them.

He's deluded of course. Anybody who works in a serious business knows full well that to retain good staff you have to go the extra mile to keep them happy. Sadly, anyone who employs people also knows that SOME employees are devious, manipulative, lying bds that make everyones life a misery.

Yup. I was given a mid year pay rise this year of 11%, which is rare at my place - we usually only get the year end increase (which I'll still get and will be a bit bigger again, based on performance). There are some who get nothing at all in the firm, that's because they're under performing.

So they think of me as being very good at my job, and pay me more as a reward - perfect.

People who are useless get nothing, effectively a real terms cut - perfect.

Who should all get a pay rise?

Well done on your pay increase, or was it a bonus payment paid upon your work performance? Two entirely different scenarios of course.

[sidicks]

legzr1 said:

Four out of the previous five posts just before your useful input disagreed with your point.

WTF?
And a few previous ones agreed with me. Regardless, the forum is for posting opinions - you'l notice how people have disagreed with you on numerous occasions but that hasn't caused you to shut up!

legzr1 said:

A tangent to nowhere it seems and as helpful as ever

Maybe you should look up what 'tangent' means? Commenting on the topic under discussion but with a different opinion is NOT a tangent.

I know that people like you don't like people thinking for themselves, but many of us with actual business experience are able to do so and are entitled to disagree with you!

legzr1 said:

what a clever chap

Seemingly much more clever than you. Try this:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+does+tangent+mean

[jimmybobby]

crankedup said:

Slaav said:

crankedup said:

Thank you.
We can certainly agree your point regarding bad workers, and I go further by saying that bad workers being 'saved' by a Union is entirely wrong on all counts imo.
As for bosses, its true I read about and have personally witnessed so many examples of bullying, offensive behaviour and general wrong toward workers doing by some Company bosses I must appear cynical. Problem on forums is one cannot name and shame.
Sure there are some great bosses around of course, those that steer a good business to be better and recognise the workers efforts within the team. I particularly point to Lidl demonstrating, with actions and words, just this M.O. with staff. On the other side of the fence we have businesses like T**** who treat staff like dirt.

Is that you Cranked or has your account been hacked???

Btw, if T**** are so cr4p the why not work for Lidl? Just go and get a job there????

Oh yes, its the real me. See its only my venomous posts which are remembered and then people base judgements on them alone. My politics will always favour toward working people, but this is not meaning I value and support wasters.

So far as my two examples of good and bad go, they are only examples to be kept in context with my posts. I no longer need to work, being retired, but choose to start a small self employed business for interest and keeps me out of mischief.

Have to agree with cranky... . There are businesses and bosses out there who are tts and their employes need protecting the problem is unions are a problem as in a lot of cases they have no reasoning capability and they get delusions of grandeur and tend to try take over businesses.

I work for a company that has a multi million turnover (which has just been bought out for a pretty sizeable sum) which is IMHO poorly managed but well run. We seem capable of getting lots of new business and we are capable of providing a decent service. The problem is no one seems to want to manage things.

This means staff take the piss chronically and do not do their jobs properly so we have loads of people who should be gone who are not and loads who should be getting paid more and promoted (myself included) who are not as the company "cannot afford it".

Reality is its perfectly affordable for the company if they got rid of the dead weight they could streamline and make the company very efficient and they could pay staff and promote them more effectively. They would also turn a much higher profit and provide a much better service to the customer.

TFL has a similar issue. Poor management and poor staff with decent staff stuck in the middle. Unfortunately TFL also has the unions and they are making things bad for everyone good staff, bad staff and the management. In turn this affects the customers who provide all of them with employment.

[anonymous-user]

Slaav said:

crankedup said:

Thank you.
We can certainly agree your point regarding bad workers, and I go further by saying that bad workers being 'saved' by a Union is entirely wrong on all counts imo.
As for bosses, its true I read about and have personally witnessed so many examples of bullying, offensive behaviour and general wrong toward workers doing by some Company bosses I must appear cynical. Problem on forums is one cannot name and shame.
Sure there are some great bosses around of course, those that steer a good business to be better and recognise the workers efforts within the team. I particularly point to Lidl demonstrating, with actions and words, just this M.O. with staff. On the other side of the fence we have businesses like T**** who treat staff like dirt.

Is that you Cranked or has your account been hacked???

Btw, if T**** are so cr4p the why not work for Lidl? Just go and get a job there????

Cranked up hasn't a clue. There are many dissatisfied Lidl workers and it has been shown that because they don't pay for breaks and have other little wrinkles, like understaffing, that not only is their new pay rate little more than paid by the established names, you have to work an awful lot harder to earn it.

Not that I'm particularly critical of any of them, I'm not aware of some compelling reason why anyone has to stay working for them and there are plenty of other jobs available for the able and willing.

[CorbynFTW]

crankedup said:

Well done on your pay increase, or was it a bonus payment paid upon your work performance? Two entirely different scenarios of course.

Do you believe pay, including increases, should be linked to performance?