Tube Strike

[menousername]

why do we hate the few remaining people that have the courage to stand up for their T&Cs ?

is it easier to hate them than to admit to ourselves that we do not have the same courage ?

Also - there is no obligation to provide us a tube service. When we approach the barriers we are offering them the opportunity to accept our business. They have no obligation to do so and we are free to use other means of transport. If the barriers are closed it means they are closed for business. Advanced passes outside of Oyster will cover the buses I believe. Probably possible to claim compensation too.

[hajaba123]

Simplistic argument is:

If you don't like your job, get another one.

Supply and demand will set pay rates, no need for backward union blackmail in this day and age

[Blaster72]

hajaba123 said:

Simplistic argument is:

If you don't like your job, get another one.

Supply and demand will set pay rates, no need for backward union blackmail in this day and age

Erm, I'd suggest many of them do like their job. They just don't like the new terms being imposed on them sans proper negotiation.

The union leaders seem to have a lot to answer for as to why that proper negotiation isn't ongoing.

[audidoody]

menousername said:

why do we hate the few remaining people that have the courage to stand up for their T&Cs ?

They have their T's&C's. They got them when they accepted the job. Don't like them now? Find another line of work.

[andymadmak]

menousername said:

why do we hate the few remaining people that have the courage to stand up for their T&Cs ?

is it easier to hate them than to admit to ourselves that we do not have the same courage ?

Also - there is no obligation to provide us a tube service. When we approach the barriers we are offering them the opportunity to accept our business. They have no obligation to do so and we are free to use other means of transport. If the barriers are closed it means they are closed for business. Advanced passes outside of Oyster will cover the buses I believe. Probably possible to claim compensation too.

The tube is a business. The managers of that business want to offer a better service to customers so as to secure additional revenue for the business. They have identified an opportunity that can be addressed by further use of existing infrastructure. This is good business practice. Nobody is being asked to work for free, nobody is being asked to take on extra duties without remuneration and such minimal changes as are required by the existing staff are being generously compensated for. (to the tune of thousands of pounds per driver)
I am at a complete and total loss to know what the flying fork the union has its knickers in a twist about!

[eliot]

Why isnt it possible to employ staff on contracts specifically for running the nightshift?

[andymadmak]

eliot said:

Why isnt it possible to employ staff on contracts specifically for running the nightshift?

I think because it is only at the weekend, and only a limited number of trains
you would have to have a small number of drivers employed on very strange inefficient contracts. Far better to expand the driver pool as a whole, and then allocate just a few shifts PER YEAR to each driver. This is what I believe TFL have done.

[Zod]

menousername said:

why do we hate the few remaining people that have the courage to stand up for their T&Cs ?

is it easier to hate them than to admit to ourselves that we do not have the same courage ?

Also - there is no obligation to provide us a tube service. When we approach the barriers we are offering them the opportunity to accept our business. They have no obligation to do so and we are free to use other means of transport. If the barriers are closed it means they are closed for business. Advanced passes outside of Oyster will cover the buses I believe. Probably possible to claim compensation too.

We are not contracting with the Tube drivers when we go through the barriers, but with TfL. The unions are only bringing forward the day when most trains will be driverless. Fools who don't know when to keep quiet when they already have too much of a good thing.

[Blaster72]

andymadmak said:

I think because it is only at the weekend, and only a limited number of trains
you would have to have a small number of drivers employed on very strange inefficient contracts. Far better to expand the driver pool as a whole, and then allocate just a few shifts PER YEAR to each driver. This is what I believe TFL have done.

Where have you read that Andy?

[Police State]

Studio117 said:

Sack them all and get robots in. Sorted

That is precisely what TFL are starting to look at with its outside consultants. The plan is to automate every feasible aspect of the service. The project aim is a fully automated network. No drivers, no guards, etc. This is what happens when a public body that employs over 400+ people on over £100k becomes a quasi corporation.

[98elise]

menousername said:

why do we hate the few remaining people that have the courage to stand up for their T&Cs ?

I'm guessing you haven't worked in the rail industry?

[andymadmak]

Blaster72 said:

andymadmak said:

I think because it is only at the weekend, and only a limited number of trains
you would have to have a small number of drivers employed on very strange inefficient contracts. Far better to expand the driver pool as a whole, and then allocate just a few shifts PER YEAR to each driver. This is what I believe TFL have done.

Where have you read that Andy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33459515

BBC article said:

TfL argues the recruitment of 137 extra drivers will "reduce the impact on our existing drivers". It has offered a £2,000 "transitional bonus" for the drivers affected, but the unions say that this will not result in a permanent pay increase for those having to do overnight shifts.

different BBC article said:

All-night services are expected to run on Fridays and Saturdays on the Piccadilly, Victoria, Central, Jubilee and Northern lines from September.

Edited by andymadmak on Friday 10th July 11:33

[valiant]

audidoody said:

menousername said:

why do we hate the few remaining people that have the courage to stand up for their T&Cs ?

They have their T's&C's. They got them when they accepted the job. Don't like them now? Find another line of work.

Exactly, night time running is OUTSIDE the existing terms and conditions so is it unreasonable to ask for the company to honour existing agreements or enter meaningful, constructive negotiations if they want them changed?

Unions are not against night tube, why would they be - it means more members, but they want assurances that a work/ life balance can be maintained.

[Blaster72]

Thanks mate, Boris was on the Radio saying this offer hadn't been passed on to the union members. I just hadn't seen it written anywhere.

The only thing I can't see is each driver only doing a handful of nights each year. The numbers don't add up, either each driver does quite a few nights or they'll have to have a core of night shift workers doing it.

[crankedup]

Studio117 said:

Sack them all and get robots in. Sorted

They tried that one in supermarkets with automated tills that customers must use or Q for a human hand to assist. That went well!
And do we trust driver-less trains yet?

[Einion Yrth]

crankedup said:

do we trust driver-less trains yet?

Anyone travelling on DLR does.

[Dromedary66]

crankedup said:

They tried that one in supermarkets with automated tills that customers must use or Q for a human hand to assist. That went well!

By and large it does work very well. You'll always get the odd spastic that can't use them.

[kev1974]

crankedup said:

And do we trust driver-less trains yet?

I think so, when was the last time the Docklands Light Railway, the Paris Metro 14, or the Copenhagen metro crashed. Or indeed the Victoria Line, which due to the passenger sections being entirely in tunnel and therefore mostly predictable, has been automated since it opened in 1967 (the "driver" only opens/closes the doors, and keeps an eye on the track, but doesn't actually drive at all).

[walm]

Not sure what's wrong with objecting to a change to your job that you don't want.
I know I would object if I were in that position.
What's the downside? Commuters already hate you!

Sure they can look for a new job, but before doing that why not do your damnest to negotiate.

This thread appears mostly full of jealousy and NIMBYism with a good dash of holier-than-thou.

If you would let your employer change your working pattern to something you didn't like without complaining then you are just a pushover.

And before the flaming, note that I am a massive capitalist - and a very selfish one at that.

[valiant]

Einion Yrth said:

crankedup said:

do we trust driver-less trains yet?

Anyone travelling on DLR does.

Yes they are driverless but they not staffless. There is a member of staff aboard every single train while in customer service and if they go on strike then the DLR shuts down. It is envisioned that LUL will follow a similar model when it eventually goes driverless.

Those of you who are looking forward to a day when strikes are a thing if the past on the underground are in for a very, very long wait. The only way you will avoid strikes in the future is for the government to introduce legislalation against strikes on the railways and I can't see that happening in the near or even far future.