Discussion
it's about time that the drivers learned that they do not run The London Underground, they are employed by them to do a job. If the powers that be decide to run 24 hours it is up to the staff to see how they can contribute their skills to the scheme to help make the company supply the kind of service that the customers expect. If they don't want to move forward with the company they can, as many have said, always find another job!
It is because of their attitude that they are very close now to being replaced by automated systems which will be far more reliable and cheaper to run!
It is because of their attitude that they are very close now to being replaced by automated systems which will be far more reliable and cheaper to run!
walm said:
If you would let your employer change your working pattern to something you didn't like without complaining then you are just a pushover.
It's not about being a push-over, it's about recognising how the business is trying to improve to make its future more viable. These people don't have to face the reality of their business failing. It's deemed an essential service and hence will always have tax payers money pumped into it to make it work. They know this and milk the system.It could be different though. It could be run like a business in a competitive market. Everyone striving for productivity gains and everyone benefiting from an improved company. I would be quite happy if the drivers got a 100% pay rise if it was justified due to improvements in their work and the service to customers.
alock said:
walm said:
If you would let your employer change your working pattern to something you didn't like without complaining then you are just a pushover.
It's not about being a push-over, it's about recognising how the business is trying to improve to make its future more viable. These people don't have to face the reality of their business failing. It's deemed an essential service and hence will always have tax payers money pumped into it to make it work. They know this and milk the system.It could be different though. It could be run like a business in a competitive market. Everyone striving for productivity gains and everyone benefiting from an improved company. I would be quite happy if the drivers got a 100% pay rise if it was justified due to improvements in their work and the service to customers.
They are taking advantage of their situation for sure - that's what people do.
They have no moral obligation to roll over.
Just like I have no moral obligation to stay quiet when my boss says he is cutting my salary because he wants his business to make more profit.
valiant said:
Einion Yrth said:
crankedup said:
do we trust driver-less trains yet?
Anyone travelling on DLR does.Those of you who are looking forward to a day when strikes are a thing if the past on the underground are in for a very, very long wait. The only way you will avoid strikes in the future is for the government to introduce legislalation against strikes on the railways and I can't see that happening in the near or even far future.
Maybe they should start at the top, the commissioner of TFL is paid £650,000 a year.
After all, he can always find another job if he doesn't like it.
Even 2 years ago there were well over 200 TFL employees on £200k + basic salary.
I personally don't begrudge leaders of a giant company making billions in profit from earning such huge salaries. I also don't begrudge those 20 odd thousand at the bottom wanting a piece of the action.
After all, he can always find another job if he doesn't like it.
Even 2 years ago there were well over 200 TFL employees on £200k + basic salary.
I personally don't begrudge leaders of a giant company making billions in profit from earning such huge salaries. I also don't begrudge those 20 odd thousand at the bottom wanting a piece of the action.
Zod said:
Those staff can be replaced easily.
Really?Then why don't they?
DLR train staff have had numerous ballots in the last few years threatening to shut down the system and management have caved every time. Why not just replace them with new staff and save the bother? Because they can't without causing further huge disruption to the system and new staff will simply join a union and you're back to square one.
And if you're suggesting removing staff completely then I think the ORR will be having a few words...
Serious question here.. 50 to 90 grand plus forty days holiday PA (apparently?) Near impossible to get sacked unless you really, really try.. for pushing a couple of buttons and having a perve on Friday nights. Don't take work home. Don't have to compete for business. Etc, etc
Sounds awesome, nein?
So why are you not all driving trains?
Sounds awesome, nein?
So why are you not all driving trains?
itannum990 said:
Serious question here.. 50 to 90 grand plus forty days holiday PA (apparently?) Near impossible to get sacked unless you really, really try.. for pushing a couple of buttons and having a perve on Friday nights. Don't take work home. Don't have to compete for business. Etc, etc
Sounds awesome, nein?
So why are you not all driving trains?
You need to be a relative of an existing driver, part of the union, bolshy bSounds awesome, nein?
So why are you not all driving trains?
d, to get in! I tried!PoleDriver said:
You need to be a relative of an existing driver, part of the union, bolshy bd, to get in! I tried!
Absolute bd, to get in! I tried!ks. Granted TfL do not recruit drivers off the street but anybody working for them can apply to be a train operator. Most common route is to join as a station assistant which is advertised on their careers page of their website for anyone to apply and then once your probation is finished you can apply to become a driver. You will then take all the tests and interviews (same as any other train company). Pass those and you'll be put on a course.
You don't have to be a union member of any flavour to advance to driving and the union has zero say on who becomes one. It's handled by a HR dept much like any other company.
Thankfully the strategy to end this national disgrace is in place, 35hr week @ £50k for looking out of dark windows and pressing a few buttons. Ray Charles could do it. As others have said, it simply hastens the appetite for change and hopefully broadens it too, we've all had enough of unions holding employers to ransom.
This is my polite version..
This is my polite version..
Dromedary66 said:
crankedup said:
They tried that one in supermarkets with automated tills that customers must use or Q for a human hand to assist. That went well!
By and large it does work very well. You'll always get the odd spastic that can't use them.Zod said:
valiant said:
Einion Yrth said:
crankedup said:
do we trust driver-less trains yet?
Anyone travelling on DLR does.Those of you who are looking forward to a day when strikes are a thing if the past on the underground are in for a very, very long wait. The only way you will avoid strikes in the future is for the government to introduce legislalation against strikes on the railways and I can't see that happening in the near or even far future.
crankedup said:
This must be the reason that supermarkets have decided to back track on the policy of self serve/ cash out machines then.
Some have (Morrisons, Waitrose trialling it) others haven't.Our local Sainsburys er Local has about 25 of them with just one employee trouble-shooting.
They work great.
kev1974 said:
Mojooo said:
Being forced to work nights is a big change.
Why don't they just employ a totally different bank of staff to run nights...
It's some tiny amount like 7 night shifts a year and without adding extra hours to their annual hours total. Not that big a change at all.Why don't they just employ a totally different bank of staff to run nights...
The thing to remember about the Night Tube that they're whinging about, is that:
- it's only a few of the lines, not the entire network
- it's only a few days a week (weekend)
- it's a massively reduced service compared to the daytime service (I can't remember if it's 15 minute or 30 minute intervals, but nowhere near the typically 2 minute intervals found during the day)
- TfL has recruited loads of extra drivers into the shift patterns as well
So the reality is that existing drivers aren't suddenly going to have to work tons of night tube shifts at all.
Platform / ticket staff, may have a more bum deal, I don't know if lots of new recruits have been added to those teams.
What people aren't realising is that we already have drivers doing nights, (driving test trains, moving stock, engineering trains, tamper trains etc). There are also station staff on most if not all stations, every night, (although in most cases it's just the Station Supervisor). Adding in a couple more platform staff and expanding the pool of drivers willing to do nights shouldn't be a problem at all. Of course it WILL be though because the unions are involved. Make no mistake this is not about 'safety' or the 'right to have a family life', it's about how much money they can get.
When the night tube was announced as an idea a union member I work with rubbed his hands and gleefully made a comment about "screwing loads of lovely cash out of TFL".
When the night tube was announced as an idea a union member I work with rubbed his hands and gleefully made a comment about "screwing loads of lovely cash out of TFL".
My take on this is somewhat against the PH masses and in some ways against my capitalist nature.
Whilst the tube drivers in my opinion are overpaid for what they do and do get perks that many of us can only dream about, I admire the way that they all pull together as a proper Union and stand up as a group.
I wish there were more unions who actually took there employers on, not in a daft way at petty things but I think working people's rights have been eroded away and people get walked over too often.
It's easy to read the headlines and draw the conclusion that they are incredibly militant and strike at the drop of a hat but in days gone by I would've welcomed that kind of representation.
Whilst the tube drivers in my opinion are overpaid for what they do and do get perks that many of us can only dream about, I admire the way that they all pull together as a proper Union and stand up as a group.
I wish there were more unions who actually took there employers on, not in a daft way at petty things but I think working people's rights have been eroded away and people get walked over too often.
It's easy to read the headlines and draw the conclusion that they are incredibly militant and strike at the drop of a hat but in days gone by I would've welcomed that kind of representation.
My take on this is somewhat against the PH masses and in some ways against my capitalist nature.
Whilst the tube drivers in my opinion are overpaid for what they do and do get perks that many of us can only dream about, I admire the way that they all pull together as a proper Union and stand up as a group.
I wish there were more unions who actually took there employers on, not in a daft way at petty things but I think working people's rights have been eroded away and people get walked over too often.
It's easy to read the headlines and draw the conclusion that they are incredibly militant and strike at the drop of a hat but in days gone by I would've welcomed that kind of representation.
Whilst the tube drivers in my opinion are overpaid for what they do and do get perks that many of us can only dream about, I admire the way that they all pull together as a proper Union and stand up as a group.
I wish there were more unions who actually took there employers on, not in a daft way at petty things but I think working people's rights have been eroded away and people get walked over too often.
It's easy to read the headlines and draw the conclusion that they are incredibly militant and strike at the drop of a hat but in days gone by I would've welcomed that kind of representation.
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