Tube Strike

[Fleegle]

johnfm said:

Fleegle said:

legzr1 said:

barryrs said:

With 3 bedroom houses for sale in Wembley at circa £275k - £300k and less than 1km to the underground network living around London for drivers shouldn't be that difficult.

So, a mortgage based on six times annual salary?

What could possibly go wrong with such a sub-prime market?

So what about Nurses, Police, Bin men?? I wonder what ratio their mortgage would be. You do realise that if we put everyones wages up, estate agents, robbing s that they are, would simultaneously drive up house prices. Back to square one!

Estate agents don't determine house prices - the market does, based on availability of credit and supply/demand of the houses in a particular area.

That's rubbish. When selling the house, who values it? People earning more money will make them smell the opportunity, and they don't need a second invitation for that.

[johnfm]

53 days annual leave?

Enough to make teachers envious...

Hard to believe Boris hasn't grabbed this by the scruff of the neck.

Really surprised they haven't been training hordes of substitute drivers to take over.

[legzr1]

barryrs said:

Ahh so tube drivers are always the only bread winner within a household; i guess that explains why they feel they need such a wage.

No, they're all married or partnered with another £50K coming into the household.

Obviously.

[legzr1]

fido said:

Exactly, the DLR has 'human interaction' as Crankers has stipulated, but not the militant sort.

Let's see how non-militant they remain when their T&Cs are changed making massive changes to their family lives without any discussion beforehand....

[fido]

Fleegle said:

That's rubbish. When selling the house, who values it?

Surveyor for the buyer purchasing the house. The EA, or seller, can ask for a £1m (sorry £10m as this is PH) for a house - doesn't mean someone will buy it for that.

[blindswelledrat]

johnfm said:

53 days annual leave?

.

THis cant be true can it?

[barryrs]

legzr1 said:

barryrs said:

Ahh so tube drivers are always the only bread winner within a household; i guess that explains why they feel they need such a wage.

No, they're all married or partnered with another £50K coming into the household.

Obviously.

Well single drivers could buy a 1 bed flat in Wembley for £165k; hows 3 times earnings sit with you?

Or £125k for shared equity with a HA at approx 2 times earnings.

Edited by barryrs on Wednesday 5th August 11:53

[KTF]

johnfm said:

Really surprised they haven't been training hordes of substitute drivers to take over.

Apparently they cant. A unions rule says internal applicants only: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2...

[Fleegle]

fido said:

Fleegle said:

That's rubbish. When selling the house, who values it?

Surveyor for the buyer purchasing the house. The EA, or seller, can ask for a £1m (sorry £10m as this is PH) for a house - doesn't mean someone will buy it for that.

And when other properties down the same street are on the market for the same price???

Sorry chaps, but this is what really happens

[Du1point8]

legzr1 said:

fido said:

Exactly, the DLR has 'human interaction' as Crankers has stipulated, but not the militant sort.

Let's see how non-militant they remain when their T&Cs are changed making massive changes to their family lives without any discussion beforehand....

They have already proven that the night shifts can be covered by people doing the same hours per week, also if they don't want to do the night shift they don't have to.

This is what was reported by LU to any news media that wanted it in a document.

Union response was that despite having the document, its all BS and it wasn't good enough, but its not about the money its about hours worked and having to do shifts (being compensated very well for too)... but its not about the money.

So what is it about?

[BJG1]

Hackney said:

How does the 24 hour tube driver get to work if he lives an hour from London?

I presume the shift starts and ends when transport is available. Starts at 10om, finishes at 6am or something

[johnfm]

Fleegle said:

johnfm said:

Fleegle said:

legzr1 said:

barryrs said:

With 3 bedroom houses for sale in Wembley at circa £275k - £300k and less than 1km to the underground network living around London for drivers shouldn't be that difficult.

So, a mortgage based on six times annual salary?

What could possibly go wrong with such a sub-prime market?

So what about Nurses, Police, Bin men?? I wonder what ratio their mortgage would be. You do realise that if we put everyones wages up, estate agents, robbing s that they are, would simultaneously drive up house prices. Back to square one!

Estate agents don't determine house prices - the market does, based on availability of credit and supply/demand of the houses in a particular area.

That's rubbish. When selling the house, who values it? People earning more money will make them smell the opportunity, and they don't need a second invitation for that.

The market values it. The EA tells the seller what they think the market will currently bear (either based on comparables or other metrics).

What do you think happens when, like for like, housebuyers can borrow £350k instead of £300k (either through lower interest rates or a change to multiples? Do you think house prices go up or down?

What do you think happens when demand for houses in a particular area goes up (demand for a good school or new commuter line opens)?

Estate agents do not set house prices - they do, obviously, advise at what level a sale could be achieved. That is their job. But if you have bought/sold many houses you'd realise that an EA won't get far over or under valuing houses - and many won't get an instruction by under valuing either. It is all down to the sellers and buyers.

[fido]

Fleegle said:

And when other properties down the same street are on the market for the same price???

I don't know if you have bought a house yet, but you don't have to pay the asking price.
In fact I find doing this saves me money sometimes.

[johnfm]

Fleegle said:

fido said:

Fleegle said:

That's rubbish. When selling the house, who values it?

Surveyor for the buyer purchasing the house. The EA, or seller, can ask for a £1m (sorry £10m as this is PH) for a house - doesn't mean someone will buy it for that.

And when other properties down the same street are on the market for the same price???

Sorry chaps, but this is what really happens

If an EA values a house at £1m because 5 have sold on that street for £1m in the previous 3 months, that isn't the EA valuing the street - that is the market valuing the street. The EA is merely providing the seller with an expectation of the current market.

[crankedup]

Take away 'workers voices' and we are left with a low wage economy and bully bosses who delight in treating staff as their personal door-mats. Of course this is OK for some people who are not involved with such businesses. Oh for a contented workplace!

[johnfm]

blindswelledrat said:

johnfm said:

53 days annual leave?

.

THis cant be true can it?

Don't know if it includes bank holidays

[crankedup]

andymadmak said:

crankedup said:

Given a choice I would much rather choose a travel system which operated a 'human back-up' at the very least. But we have to do things in life that compromise our preferences occasionally. I, like most people travel by aircraft from time to time, the automation of some aircraft has reached limits of which I currently find uncomfortable. My preference is certainly favouring the 'human touch'.

As a matter of interest does anyone have any figures on the relative safety of automatic trains vs driver operated trains?

Doubtful any meaningful stat's are about, but using my analogy of aircraft tech' taking over from human pilots, auto systems are fine until an unexpected scenario develops. Back on a train I prefer the human driver with a dead mans handle thanks very much.

[Hackney]

blindswelledrat said:

Hackney said:

How does the 24 hour tube driver get to work if he lives an hour from London?

I don't really understand your question, but I think 'on the tube' is probably the answer as there isn't only one driver.Or on the night buses which London is full of. Or the overground trains which London is full of . Plus I would doubt very much that they will time the shifts to begin at 3am.
But to answer it in a less helpful way: I couldn't care less. The same way that millions of other people who work in service industries get to work. Or a policeman. Or a fireman. Why is it that these things are supposedly so much worse for a tube driver than anyone else? What makes them so special?
These unions and therefore their meebers seem to forget that their very existence is to provide a service to the public. That is what the tube is for. It's sole purpose is not to proved optimal home lives and salaries for it's workers.

The tube network doesn't stretch out of London (Chesham being the furthest at only 25 miles from London)

Those millions of other people you speak of have exactly the same problem:
Move far enough out of London to afford a house and find it impossible to get back in at (a) a reasonable cost (b) during unsociable hours.

No one is saying the issue is worse for tube drivers, it's a problem for anyone on a normal wage but particularly shift workers who have less access to transport.

Part of the role of the union is to make sure their member's jobs can provide a decent home and salary for the workers. If they don't do that and if the workers don't demand it then they will not do the job, neither will anyone else. Tube driver (or fireman, policeman, nurse, etc, etc) will become a job that cannot be done by someone with a house, husband / wife, child and all related costs.
They will become the sole preserve of young, single, 5 to a room, people as they slum it round the world on their year off, in much the same way as bar and waiter jobs are now.

[blindswelledrat]

fking hell. That is unbelievable.
I cant get my head around it at all.

[eccles]

johnfm said:

blindswelledrat said:

johnfm said:

53 days annual leave?

.

THis cant be true can it?

Don't know if it includes bank holidays

Typical!, blatant exaggeration, 53 days indeed! It clearly shows in that letter 52 days!