Discussion
valiant said:
Seriously, stick to writing stuff you know about.
Just this week TfL announced that the SSL upgrade project has been re tendered at double the cost and not until 2023 at the very earliest which in LUL terms means nearer 2030 and this is to bring ATO to the subsurface lines, not driverless,and after that there's the small matter of the Piccadilly, Bakerloo and the Central line.
If you're a spotty 21 year old starting work today, there's a good chance you will be travelling home from your retirement party on a tube manned by a driver/operator.
On the mainline, it's not even being considered yet.
If, in 10 years, I have a car which can drive itself, why don't I just have it drop me at the office...then have it p
s off to a park and ride car park, then come back for me later...valiant said:
If you're a spotty 21 year old starting work today, there's a good chance you will be travelling home from your retirement party on a tube manned by a driver/operator.
Some might interpret that statement as being a guarantee that there won't be any Tube strikes in the future. 
legzr1 said:
Quite possibly.
Point is, if they were asked to things could have moved forward.
They weren't asked, they were told.
Just because 95% of the posters in this thread are prepared to take it up the arse doesn't mean that Tube drivers should.
Hope that clarifies the position
You talk as though the workers own the underground. They don't. It is a public service and it's purpose is to provide what the public wants, not what the workers want.Point is, if they were asked to things could have moved forward.
They weren't asked, they were told.
Just because 95% of the posters in this thread are prepared to take it up the arse doesn't mean that Tube drivers should.
Hope that clarifies the position
The arrogance of these people is breathtaking
I'm not a driver but I've worked on pretty much all of the railway / metro in the UK.
After initial brainwashing as a young apprentice into joining the RMT I started thinking for myself, jacked the union and decided my own destiny, from there my pay and conditions have increased no end, much more than all the other people I left behind.
Only one other person I know of has done the same, everybody else in the RMT is still in the same position ranting and raving how st it is except it's the union bullst brainwashing that keeps them thinking that the job they have is where they belong and how dare they better themselves.
It's a fking joke throughout the entire railway no matter what position you are in.
After initial brainwashing as a young apprentice into joining the RMT I started thinking for myself, jacked the union and decided my own destiny, from there my pay and conditions have increased no end, much more than all the other people I left behind.
Only one other person I know of has done the same, everybody else in the RMT is still in the same position ranting and raving how s
t it is except it's the union bullst brainwashing that keeps them thinking that the job they have is where they belong and how dare they better themselves. It's a f
king joke throughout the entire railway no matter what position you are in. valiant said:
Seriously, stick to writing stuff you know about.
Just this week TfL announced that the SSL upgrade project has been re tendered at double the cost and not until 2023 at the very earliest which in LUL terms means nearer 2030 and this is to bring ATO to the subsurface lines, not driverless,and after that there's the small matter of the Piccadilly, Bakerloo and the Central line.
If you're a spotty 21 year old starting work today, there's a good chance you will be travelling home from your retirement party on a tube manned by a driver/operator.
On the mainline, it's not even being considered yet.
Don't let facts get in the way of angst-ridden nonsense.
I'm itching to read what the PH experts will suggest for automating absolute block working with semaphore signalling - maybe press both the in-cab buttons together?
roachcoach said:
Given the advances in self driving cars, the cost of rail tickets you may wish to consider the bigger picture.
If, in 10 years, I have a car which can drive itself, why don't I just have it drop me at the office...then have it ps off to a park and ride car park, then come back for me later...
Something like 3-4 million journeys are made on the tube on a normal weekday. That's more than the all of National Rail combined. Replacing those with self driving cars is dreamland I'm afraid. If, in 10 years, I have a car which can drive itself, why don't I just have it drop me at the office...then have it p
s off to a park and ride car park, then come back for me later...valiant said:
roachcoach said:
Given the advances in self driving cars, the cost of rail tickets you may wish to consider the bigger picture.
If, in 10 years, I have a car which can drive itself, why don't I just have it drop me at the office...then have it ps off to a park and ride car park, then come back for me later...
Something like 3-4 million journeys are made on the tube on a normal weekday. That's more than the all of National Rail combined. Replacing those with self driving cars is dreamland I'm afraid. If, in 10 years, I have a car which can drive itself, why don't I just have it drop me at the office...then have it p
s off to a park and ride car park, then come back for me later...Depends on how it is done, someone might pick it up as a venture and start a service, for example.
Never say never.
MajorProblem said:
I'm not a driver...
No.If you were you might have joined a different Union (let's call it aslef) which, rightly or wrongly, is held in a slightly higher regard than 'other' rail-based unions.
You quite possibly would also notice a different approach to negotiations and a better grasp on 'real life'.
And yet, Aslef are also on strike.
So, Aslef as 's
t' as RMT (ex-NUR) or is there the slightest chance there may actually be real issues with LUL?roachcoach said:
That is disingenuous at best, 95% of the people in this thread don't work in a closed shop essentially blackmailed by unions to block open, free market recruitment.
It may be said that 95% of the posters in this thread live in the real world...
Go educate yourself my friend.It may be said that 95% of the posters in this thread live in the real world...
Have a look at the wages, holidays and package offered to qualified drivers operating just a few short miles outside of (but serving) London.
None of this silly 'closed shop' malarkey - franchised TOCs or real 'open market' OAO's all operating 'for profit' with shareholders and stuff would you believe?
Hell, if you could push two buttons (and are prepared to lower yourself to scum class) you could even apply for a position yourself.
Warning - the medical is fairly strict - if you have the average PH BMI you may struggle
blindswelledrat said:
johnfm said:
I think the tide is only flowing one way - and it isn't in the favour of organised, unskilled labour.
I think the sad thing is that if we do start taking a hard line on unions it will be to the detriment of many people, and unnecessarily.Many industries have unions which ensure fair conditions for their workers whilst accepting the economic realities of the employers. That's how it should be.
THe transport unions involved in this has just created such a bloated, blackmailing,monster that, as you say, public tide is heavily against it now but any actions taken against them will affect all the other people who haven't benefited from the obscene greed.
MajorProblem said:
You won't have automatic trains but you will see that absolute block replaced by track section block and auto signals. Probably westrace interlocking from Siemens for control.
ERTMS is the boy (apparently).Regional ROCs already underway (York is almost fully kitted out already) but fully functioning ERTMS is still a couple of decades away at best - and only for plain line already running TCB with full GSM-R.
But, I'm preaching to the converted here - you know, Valliant knows and I know that full automation of the whole network is a generation away.
Not 20 years
ERTMS will only be employed on the main lines first, probably the East Coast for starters as that is most neglected and run down.
The ROCs aren't even meant to be at full capacity for the next 20 years. So I would say you would be looking at 50 years for full ERTMS and trains will still have drivers.
ETRMS is fun when you get to a complex station / junction and it can't decide where the train is or is going to, so at the minute for what I understand you have to employ a hybrid signalling system to interface. It's fine when you've got plain line for miles and miles.
The ROCs aren't even meant to be at full capacity for the next 20 years. So I would say you would be looking at 50 years for full ERTMS and trains will still have drivers.
ETRMS is fun when you get to a complex station / junction and it can't decide where the train is or is going to, so at the minute for what I understand you have to employ a hybrid signalling system to interface. It's fine when you've got plain line for miles and miles.
legzr1 said:
MajorProblem said:
I'm not a driver...
No.If you were you might have joined a different Union (let's call it aslef) which, rightly or wrongly, is held in a slightly higher regard than 'other' rail-based unions.
You quite possibly would also notice a different approach to negotiations and a better grasp on 'real life'.
And yet, Aslef are also on strike.
So, Aslef as 's
t' as RMT (ex-NUR) or is there the slightest chance there may actually be real issues with LUL?t as those of the RMT. You delude yourself if you think they're held in any sort of high regard by anyone other than the members. And I have no axe to grind, I've long since not needed to travel by rail or underground so have no need to 'take it up the arse' as you put it, from a bunch of greedy b
ds who couldn't get anywhere on their own but have to gang up and find some treacherous tt to do their dirty work for them.legzr1 said:
roachcoach said:
That is disingenuous at best, 95% of the people in this thread don't work in a closed shop essentially blackmailed by unions to block open, free market recruitment.
It may be said that 95% of the posters in this thread live in the real world...
Go educate yourself my friend.It may be said that 95% of the posters in this thread live in the real world...
Have a look at the wages, holidays and package offered to qualified drivers operating just a few short miles outside of (but serving) London.
None of this silly 'closed shop' malarkey - franchised TOCs or real 'open market' OAO's all operating 'for profit' with shareholders and stuff would you believe?
Hell, if you could push two buttons (and are prepared to lower yourself to scum class) you could even apply for a position yourself.
Warning - the medical is fairly strict - if you have the average PH BMI you may struggle
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