Jeremy Corbyn

[Vaud]

I was amused by the left winger commentators saying how they loved the speech, that it was pure Corbyn.

Rather than a previously rejected, 20 year old speech that even Kinnock and Miliband rejected.

[The Don of Croy]

FredClogs said:

...The point being that a salary cap in any industry need not be an impediment to success and actually be a good thing for the market, the sector and the people working in it. If you want to get rid of nepotism, cronyism and failed capitalist models and create a really equitable market place that nurtures skill and talent then salary caps is a good way.

Are you sure you have a grasp of 'market' dynamics?

If you fiddle with it - wage caps or barriers to entry - it ceases to be a 'free' market, and becomes a sclerotic enterprise that will ultimately fail (this may take years/decades/centuries), but in the meantime acts inefficiently.

You get extra points for mentioning nepotism, cronyism and failed capitalist models in one sentance. Luckily, nepotism and cronyism have never been rife in any left-of-centre endeavour...and there are no 'failed models' to examine in socialist/communist countries.

Corbyn wants to make every school accountable to local education authorities. Why does any institution need such bureaucratic interference in 2015? Are the head teachers so poorly prepared they cannot run these institutions?

And asking for greater civility online - has the man never visited CiF at the Guardian?

[turbobloke]

The Don of Croy said:

FredClogs said:

...The point being that a salary cap in any industry need not be an impediment to success and actually be a good thing for the market, the sector and the people working in it. If you want to get rid of nepotism, cronyism and failed capitalist models and create a really equitable market place that nurtures skill and talent then salary caps is a good way.

Are you sure you have a grasp of 'market' dynamics?

If you fiddle with it - wage caps or barriers to entry - it ceases to be a 'free' market, and becomes a sclerotic enterprise that will ultimately fail (this may take years/decades/centuries), but in the meantime acts inefficiently.

But think of the great tractor production figures for next year, comrade.

The Don of Croy said:

You get extra points for mentioning nepotism, cronyism and failed capitalist models in one sentance. Luckily, nepotism and cronyism have never been rife in any left-of-centre endeavour...and there are no 'failed models' to examine in socialist/communist countries.

The Don of Croy said:

Corbyn wants to make every school accountable to local education authorities. Why does any institution need such bureaucratic interference in 2015? Are the head teachers so poorly prepared they cannot run these institutions?

Previously, in the bad old days, LA control was dire in terms of standards. Many LAs are inadequate or require improvement after Ofsted inspections. Why should schools be left at the mercy of incompetents? At one point 6 out of 20-ish Welsh LAs were in Special Measures, that's nearly 30% in the 'useless' basket.

The Don of Croy said:

And asking for greater civility online - has the man never visited CiF at the Guardian?

Obviously not! And due to the tolerance and civility on display from the lefties watching over that site, many folks can no longer talk for free anyway.

[turbobloke]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Of course they're not. Such protestations are obviously affected.

If anything a judgement on permanently failed marxist economies as equivalent to intermittent events in successful capitalist (mainly) economies is bizarre.

Since 1979, no Government has attempted direct controls on wages or prices, with good reason. Similar proposed interference from the EU is ill-judged.

Gramscian Marxism rides again?

There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
(William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar, Act IV Scene 3)

[turbobloke]

The EU: economies of Greece, Cyprus, Portugal and Spain matter.

[RYH64E]

truck71 said:

I think its's slightly different to that, most people are kind and willing to help others. What they're not is gullible, they don't want to work hard only to have their rewards taken from them in the name of unnecessary causes/beneficiaries. Had there not been such an increase in immigration over the last 15 years would society be more sympathetic to the migration crisis now? The last sentence is an observation rather than an opinion.

What's key for me is the need to have a culture of work equaling reward and the idea of state support being a last resort not an "option". This is where I have real objections to socialism, doesn't mean I don't care about society as a whole which is the label lefties would throw in my direction.

There's been a long history of opinion polls asking voters 'Would you be prepared to pay more tax to fund...', voters often say 'Yes' in the opinion polls but vote 'No' in elections. The Corbyn approach is slightly different in as much as he's saying 'Would you be prepared for other people to pay more tax to fund...', and the faithful are obviously all in favour of that, unfortunately for Labour there are enough 'other people' to ensure that they're unlikely to ever get into power with such policies, especially as paying for all the things Corbyn wants will mean stretching the definition of 'other people' to include middle earners and not just the very rich.

[bradders]

FredClogs said:

They have a wage cap in German football, their top teams seem to attract the elite and do well in European competition, there seems to be no determent to their international team, the ticket prices are uniformly capped and it doesn't seem to affect attendances, in fact quite the opposite.

I believe the NFL and NBA cap player salaries as well. As I said rugby league definitely do.

People feel much more involved and invested in things when they don't feel like their being fked in every orifice at every possible opportunity. Attendances at english football has been falling steadily since the premier league came about, the national team has suffered terribly - it's a miracle of hype marketing and the power of Murdoch that there is any professional football left in England at all.

This isn't a question of what I find tasteful, it's a question of what is sustainable and civilised.

The inaugural season of the Premier League was 1992-93. Average attendances in the four major English leagues was already on an upward trend from 1989 (prior to the formation of the Premier League), but the growth in attendances accelerated between 1997 and 2004, after which it has roughly stabilised.

2014 29,631.347
2013 29,214.567
2012 29,437.335
2011 29,464.367
2010 30,059.961
2009 29,873.273
2008 29,910.490
2007 29,531.365
2006 29,090.587
2005 29,245.014
2004 29,199.590
2003 28,344.137
2002 27,907.983
2001 26,078.193
2000 25,363.328
1999 25,425.264
1998 24,676.791
1997 22,756.677
1996 21,810.956
1995 21,836.104
1994 21,677.680
1993 20,647.282
1992 20,519.261
1991 19,563.032
1990 19,449.381
1989 18,457.691

Full breakdown of attendance data can be found here.....
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn...

To suggest that the advent of the Premier League has resulted in steadily falling attendances is incorrect.

[andymadmak]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

well, erm, aside from the minimum wage, are prices controlled in the medicine and energy sectors?

[otolith]

FredClogs said:

otolith said:

FredClogs said:

They have a wage cap in German football, their top teams seem to attract the elite and do well in European competition, there seems to be no determent to their international team, the ticket prices are uniformly capped and it doesn't seem to affect attendances, in fact quite the opposite.

Are you sure? I can find articles about it being considered, but not about it being implemented.

I think they do, they certainly have a more equitable system, better attendances and lower ticket prices. The NFL and NBA have salary caps but the cap exists for a team not for individuals (I think), and this is sort of the same as the FIFA regulations (Financial fairplay) that are being introduced which limit the % of a clubs turnover that can be paid in salary - but of course the benefits the larger richer clubs with the bigger turnovers...

The only thing I can find are some measures restricting the ability of clubs to spend more than their income (i.e. restricting borrowing or bankrolling by oligarchs).

FredClogs said:

The point being that a salary cap in any industry need not be an impediment to success and actually be a good thing for the market, the sector and the people working in it. If you want to get rid of nepotism, cronyism and failed capitalist models and create a really equitable market place that nurtures skill and talent then salary caps is a good way.

I think that's how you would like it to work, I'm not convinced that there is evidence to think that's what would actually happen.

What you are actually doing with a salary cap is saying that any talent above that which commands the cap is worthless to the person who has it, and that there is no mechanism for a company to poach such talent from rivals. Why is devaluing exceptional talent desirable?

[otolith]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Sorry, that link to the medicines - is that not how much the NHS is willing to pay for them, not how much they can be sold for on the open market? It does not apply to OTC medicines or private prescriptions.

[andymadmak]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

erm


The PPRS covers all licensed, branded, health service medicines supplied by members of the scheme. It does not cover:
• sales of products on private prescription or other use outside the health service in the UK;
• products without a brand name (generics);
• branded products available without prescription (over the counter (“OTC”)
medicines), except when these are prescribed.

[andymadmak]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I can't access your link for the energy question. Am I correct to assume this is the Ofgen regulator doing his stuff? If so, I am not 100% certain that this fits the description of price control in the traditional (i.e., a la Miliband) sense.

[avinalarf]

Oooops.....he's blown it .....( perhaps that's the wrong phrase to use )
It's been reported that Corbyn has today said that there are NO circumstances that he'd press the nuclear button.

[FredClogs]

bradders said:

FredClogs said:

They have a wage cap in German football, their top teams seem to attract the elite and do well in European competition, there seems to be no determent to their international team, the ticket prices are uniformly capped and it doesn't seem to affect attendances, in fact quite the opposite.

I believe the NFL and NBA cap player salaries as well. As I said rugby league definitely do.

People feel much more involved and invested in things when they don't feel like their being fked in every orifice at every possible opportunity. Attendances at english football has been falling steadily since the premier league came about, the national team has suffered terribly - it's a miracle of hype marketing and the power of Murdoch that there is any professional football left in England at all.

This isn't a question of what I find tasteful, it's a question of what is sustainable and civilised.

The inaugural season of the Premier League was 1992-93. Average attendances in the four major English leagues was already on an upward trend from 1989 (prior to the formation of the Premier League), but the growth in attendances accelerated between 1997 and 2004, after which it has roughly stabilised.

2014 29,631.347
2013 29,214.567
2012 29,437.335
2011 29,464.367
2010 30,059.961
2009 29,873.273
2008 29,910.490
2007 29,531.365
2006 29,090.587
2005 29,245.014
2004 29,199.590
2003 28,344.137
2002 27,907.983
2001 26,078.193
2000 25,363.328
1999 25,425.264
1998 24,676.791
1997 22,756.677
1996 21,810.956
1995 21,836.104
1994 21,677.680
1993 20,647.282
1992 20,519.261
1991 19,563.032
1990 19,449.381
1989 18,457.691

Full breakdown of attendance data can be found here.....
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn...

To suggest that the advent of the Premier League has resulted in steadily falling attendances is incorrect.

I stand corrected, but if you look at the list of record attendances per ground you'll maybe see another picture...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_...

[sanf]

Funk said:

otolith said:

Symbolica said:

Meet the new politics - same as the old politics.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/m...

Literally, in this case.

Fundamental left-right difference of attitude there - the idea that you have what you are given rather than what you make.

It's also a great example of how Corbyn's trying to dress up mutton as lamb and how he's 30 years behind the curve, peddling out-of-date ideas that have no place in the modern world.

Seriously, Corbyn is the best thing to happen to the Tories in decades. Miliband made Labour unlectable and Corbyn's making sure it stays that way.

This. As politician of the 80's looking to the ethos of the 60's he is in completely the wrong time time. I want a 21st century politician, looking to the future, not someone looking at the past and failed ideas from 30 years ago, stuck in the 20th century when the UK and global economy looked very different to now.

He has a nice sentiment, but fundamentally bad policies - optimism over pragmatism. He's an uninspiring speaker, and not passionate enough to whip up the frenzy - his timing around the clapping on his key points was badly managed in the speech. Maybe that will change and evolve, but early signs aren't promising.

[sidicks]

FredClogs said:

I stand corrected, but if you look at the list of record attendances per ground you'll maybe see another picture...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_...

????

Obviously driven by the move to all-seater stadiums resulting from changing regulation, and nothing to support your previous claims!

[Strocky]

FredClogs said:

I stand corrected, but if you look at the list of record attendances per ground you'll maybe see another picture...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_...

Your list will be mainly down to the Taylor Report and the need to reduce capacity severely due to all seater stadia and that back in the day, other than a church hall and an organist, football was mainly the only leisure pursuit available to the proles

[Funk]

sanf said:

Funk said:

otolith said:

Symbolica said:

Meet the new politics - same as the old politics.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/m...

Literally, in this case.

Fundamental left-right difference of attitude there - the idea that you have what you are given rather than what you make.

It's also a great example of how Corbyn's trying to dress up mutton as lamb and how he's 30 years behind the curve, peddling out-of-date ideas that have no place in the modern world.

Seriously, Corbyn is the best thing to happen to the Tories in decades. Miliband made Labour unlectable and Corbyn's making sure it stays that way.

This. As politician of the 80's looking to the ethos of the 60's he is in completely the wrong time time. I want a 21st century politician, looking to the future, not someone looking at the past and failed ideas from 30 years ago, stuck in the 20th century when the UK and global economy looked very different to now.

He has a nice sentiment, but fundamentally bad policies - optimism over pragmatism. He's an uninspiring speaker, and not passionate enough to whip up the frenzy - his timing around the clapping on his key points was badly managed in the speech. Maybe that will change and evolve, but early signs aren't promising.

Don't forget that of course he's absolutely a 'man of the people' - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Co...

[Cobnapint]

avinalarf said:

Oooops.....he's blown it .....( perhaps that's the wrong phrase to use )
It's been reported that Corbyn has today said that there are NO circumstances that he'd press the nuclear button.

So, he won't sing the National Anthem, won't do his top button up and straighten his tie during a war remembrance, wants to get rid of the Royal Family, would consider giving back the Falklands, and now tells the world that we wouldn't retaliate to nuclear decimation.

Any Labour voters on here want to comment on this Judas..?

[otolith]

Funk said:

Don't forget that of course he's absolutely a 'man of the people' - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Co...

That will be no impediment to him, he's not half as posh as Benn and they still loved him.