Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
I want to marry Cathy Newman even more than usual, and usual is a lot. She rocks in every way (shame about the silly stuff about the Mosques earlier this year, but we all screw up every now and then).
If Burgon is a Tab, maybe he read Land Economy. Cambridge is refreshingly honest in offering a degree course that everyone knows is for thickoes and sporties. Rather dim rugby playing or rowing type? Want to go to Cambridge? Apply to Girton and do Land Economy! Oxford is more dishonest (it is the main politicians' university, after all), and claims that its degree for thickoes, PPE, is a real degree. It has some joke colleges, but none that are such a joke as Girton, which isn't even near Cambridge, let alone in it. Cameron got a First in PPE (Brasenose - posh college, not as posh as Christ Church or Magdalen, not a joke college), and that sounds cool, but not when you know that getting a first in PPE is like getting an A Level in Travel Agent Management, only easier. Those who want to study economics and politics for real go to the LSE. Cathy Newman is a New College (clever college, medium posh) modern languages person, IIRC.
I'm struggling to recall a more pompous post on this 'ere entire bored. Anyone? If Burgon is a Tab, maybe he read Land Economy. Cambridge is refreshingly honest in offering a degree course that everyone knows is for thickoes and sporties. Rather dim rugby playing or rowing type? Want to go to Cambridge? Apply to Girton and do Land Economy! Oxford is more dishonest (it is the main politicians' university, after all), and claims that its degree for thickoes, PPE, is a real degree. It has some joke colleges, but none that are such a joke as Girton, which isn't even near Cambridge, let alone in it. Cameron got a First in PPE (Brasenose - posh college, not as posh as Christ Church or Magdalen, not a joke college), and that sounds cool, but not when you know that getting a first in PPE is like getting an A Level in Travel Agent Management, only easier. Those who want to study economics and politics for real go to the LSE. Cathy Newman is a New College (clever college, medium posh) modern languages person, IIRC.
Breadvan72 said:
I want to marry Cathy Newman even more than usual, and usual is a lot. She rocks in every way (shame about the silly stuff about the Mosques earlier this year, but we all screw up every now and then).
I really struggle with her style (and her hair never moves), she's concluded that in order to interview someone you have to be confrontational, because it's like Paxo, whilst there are cases where this is warranted but to do it every time comes across as self-serving. And her hair never moves!
eharding said:
I was expecting his waltzing eyebrows to finally leap straight up his forehead, disappear over the top of his scalp, down his back, and then swiftly scuffle out of the studio, aghast at the shame of being associated with such a colossal arse-biscuit.
As a dyed-in-the-wool Tory, the £3 I spent voting for Corbyn is absolutely the best value-for-money entertainment expenditure I have ever, or will ever, make.
Never in my wildest dreams did I expect he'd assemble quite such a chaotic shower of crap as this chimp's tea party of a Shadow Cabinet.
That is possibly the best comment I've read regarding that interview. Well done, Sir!As a dyed-in-the-wool Tory, the £3 I spent voting for Corbyn is absolutely the best value-for-money entertainment expenditure I have ever, or will ever, make.
Never in my wildest dreams did I expect he'd assemble quite such a chaotic shower of crap as this chimp's tea party of a Shadow Cabinet.
crankedup said:
London is a high cost housing area of course, along with other major cities of the World, as you point out.
The problem I mention is National, especially in the South of England.
Supply and demand is it not? The cost of housing further North or in areas that are less than perfect aren't actually THAT bad.The problem I mention is National, especially in the South of England.
If you don't want to pay high prices for rent or have to fork out £500K for a 2 bed flat, don't aspire to live somewhere (i.e. The South East) that has some of the highest demand in the country.
Building houses around London will increase supply sure, but only in a relatively small manner when compared to the demand (No matter which housing plan you look at from the Left/Right) and large increases in SE social housing will only cost lots of £Tax and stem the problem temporarily.
The housing "crisis" is not actually just a problem with housing
The problem is
1. Lower job creation in areas outside of the South East
2. Unrealistic public expectations/ideals
3. Wage inflation inside of London that drives point 2.
4. Many many other factors
London is very much an expection to the rule, primarily because of it's status as a fiancial and cultural hub on a global scale, which is never going to change.
What we need to do is tempt people AWAY from London and drive economic growth in other areas of the UK. That is then a double edged sword and won't require the Government to create liquidity that cannot be reversed (i.e. Corbyn's QE "for the people")
Edited by Alex_6n2 on Friday 16th October 12:15
crankedup said:
My opinion for a drive to a solution is simple enough and the coalition and current Government have made attempts at resolving the major housing shortage. Some of the efforts have included what I have been banging on about for donkey years.
1. Release land currently owned by the M.O.D. for use to build Social housing.
2. Continue to refurbish ex M.O.D. housing for private and Social housing.
3. Re-introduce housing grants for refurbishment of run down stock. Grant to be repaid if house sold within specified time limit.
4. Introduce a static interest rate for housing loans with a tax relief attached for interest paid.
5. Introduce directly employed 'Council' builders paid from rental incomes.
6. Ease planning regulations. (in motion)
8. Further increases of taxation involving unoccupied housing stock.
50/50% part ownerships for first time buyers continue.
Gifting cash tax free within families to be increased that assist with house deposits.
Just a few comments some of which may assist younger people acquire a home.
]1. Release land currently owned by the M.O.D. for use to build Social housing.
2. Continue to refurbish ex M.O.D. housing for private and Social housing.
3. Re-introduce housing grants for refurbishment of run down stock. Grant to be repaid if house sold within specified time limit.
4. Introduce a static interest rate for housing loans with a tax relief attached for interest paid.
5. Introduce directly employed 'Council' builders paid from rental incomes.
6. Ease planning regulations. (in motion)
8. Further increases of taxation involving unoccupied housing stock.
50/50% part ownerships for first time buyers continue.
Gifting cash tax free within families to be increased that assist with house deposits.
Just a few comments some of which may assist younger people acquire a home.
And some of which will simply encourage more price inflation.
I do agree with taxing unoccupied properties though, especially those owned by non uk residents.
Btw there is no tax to pay on familial cash transfers, done in a timely manner.
crankedup said:
Over-priced definition : when the cost of a average 2/3 bed terrace home exceeds the affordability of the measured median wage.
My definition: Over-priced - the price is set higher than someone will pay. 
You have simply stated an opinion.That said, I agree with many of your ideas for relieving the situation where less well off people cannot afford to buy a house.
crankedup said:
The problem I mention is National, especially in the South of England.
No it's not. The south is affected by London and commuters who can't afford/don't want to live in London.In pretty much every other city in the country you can buy a house for £70k, or 3x the average salary, and some a lot less than that. Will it be a palace? No. But then people who earn the square root of f
k all shouldn't be expecting to live in barn conversions, Cheshire mansions or Edinburgh townhouses.technodup said:
crankedup said:
The problem I mention is National, especially in the South of England.
No it's not. The south is affected by London and commuters who can't afford/don't want to live in London.In pretty much every other city in the country you can buy a house for £70k, or 3x the average salary, and some a lot less than that. Will it be a palace? No. But then people who earn the square root of f
k all shouldn't be expecting to live in barn conversions, Cheshire mansions or Edinburgh townhouses.
crankedup said:
Sway said:
crankedup said:
Tell that to those who cannot afford to buy over-priced houses, or pay extortionate rents, and unable to access Social housing owing to shortages. Plenty of young professionals are in this boat and live with Mum and Dad, average age is still rising regards this group of 'stay at homes' its now 35 years.
The general overall picture of housing in the U.K. is a complete disaster.
Name a top five Worldwide city (as London is) that has a better percentage of 'affordable' houses within similar travel times to the centre?The general overall picture of housing in the U.K. is a complete disaster.
It's mental, yes. Whether New York, Singapore, Tokyo or London if a significant proportion of the World would like to live there, costs are always going to be very high.
The problem I mention is National, especially in the South of England.
Plenty of workers in Zurich cross the border from Germany every day, and the houses next to the border command higher prices than the surrounding area.
Move along the coast to Devon/Cornwall and it's broadly similar to the Algarve, or Florida Keys.
Easiest way to remove that would be to destroy the travel links into London. Of course, that would create a pressure cooker within the Underground catchment, so is even more unworkable.
What's f
ked up is the view that because you have a 'normal' job within one of the best cities in the World, you should be able to afford a family home within said city. Not the reality in the South East of the UK, nor the commuter catchment belt of any top 5 Worldwide cities.That will not, indeed cannot, be changed to any great extent. Unless you ruin London to the point that no-one wants to live or work there...
Getragdogleg said:
Sway said:
crankedup said:
Tell that to those who cannot afford to buy over-priced houses, or pay extortionate rents, and unable to access Social housing owing to shortages. Plenty of young professionals are in this boat and live with Mum and Dad, average age is still rising regards this group of 'stay at homes' its now 35 years.
The general overall picture of housing in the U.K. is a complete disaster.
Name a top five Worldwide city (as London is) that has a better percentage of 'affordable' houses within similar travel times to the centre?The general overall picture of housing in the U.K. is a complete disaster.
It's mental, yes. Whether New York, Singapore, Tokyo or London if a significant proportion of the World would like to live there, costs are always going to be very high.
Sway said:
crankedup said:
Tell that to those who cannot afford to buy over-priced houses, or pay extortionate rents, and unable to access Social housing owing to shortages. Plenty of young professionals are in this boat and live with Mum and Dad, average age is still rising regards this group of 'stay at homes' its now 35 years.
The general overall picture of housing in the U.K. is a complete disaster.
Name a top five Worldwide city (as London is) that has a better percentage of 'affordable' houses within similar travel times to the centre?The general overall picture of housing in the U.K. is a complete disaster.
It's mental, yes. Whether New York, Singapore, Tokyo or London if a significant proportion of the World would like to live there, costs are always going to be very high.
A quick example, is Stanley County Durham,
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find....
CHEAP HOUSING = No work
crankedup said:
Norman Tebbit infamously told unemployed people during the 1980's to 'get on your bike' to find work. He clearly overlooked the small problem of housing cost, even back the.! Where there is plenty of work witness the cost of housing.
CHEAP HOUSING = No work
My recollection of that quote was Tebbit referring to his own father's experience of finding work - "He got on his bike" what's sauce for the goose etc.CHEAP HOUSING = No work
If the housing cost cannot be born by the workers, either their earnings rise to meet the cost of the housing or the work will go begging, until workers can afford it. Supply and demand.
Interestingly when my son was working at Thoresby coal mine in 2013 nearly all the face workers were Scottish. It seems there are more than a few PH posters who have moved to follow jobs. I've done it too. These migrants are doing it. Why not try it?
Alex_6n2 said:
crankedup said:
London is a high cost housing area of course, along with other major cities of the World, as you point out.
The problem I mention is National, especially in the South of England.
Supply and demand is it not? The cost of housing further North or in areas that are less than perfect aren't actually THAT bad.The problem I mention is National, especially in the South of England.
If you don't want to pay high prices for rent or have to fork out £500K for a 2 bed flat, don't aspire to live somewhere (i.e. The South East) that has some of the highest demand in the country.
Building houses around London will increase supply sure, but only in a relatively small manner when compared to the demand (No matter which housing plan you look at from the Left/Right) and large increases in SE social housing will only cost lots of £Tax and stem the problem temporarily.
The housing "crisis" is not actually just a problem with housing
The problem is
1. Lower job creation in areas outside of the South East
2. Unrealistic public expectations/ideals
3. Wage inflation inside of London that drives point 2.
4. Many many other factors
London is very much an expection to the rule, primarily because of it's status as a fiancial and cultural hub on a global scale, which is never going to change.
What we need to do is tempt people AWAY from London and drive economic growth in other areas of the UK. That is then a double edged sword and won't require the Government to create liquidity that cannot be reversed (i.e. Corbyn's QE "for the people")
Edited by Alex_6n2 on Friday 16th October 12:15
I agree it is fundamentally supply v demand, although this has been skewed for some years now by foreign investment money coming in from Russia and China. Even some of this money is finding it a little too rich and they are now investing in some of our other major cities. Of course this pushes prices up and causes the old ripple effect. This is the main reason I would like to see expensive empty 'investment' property taxed even higher.
IMO its not a case of moving out to cheaper housing for first time buyers / renters. Sure the housing cost will be less, but then you have travel and time expenses. Even then you need to travel a heck of distance to find affordable housing.
I agree that people need to be able to find work elsewhere in the Country, unfortunately short-sighted Governments have for decades ignored transport infrastructure and failed to substantially 'replace' our lost heavy industries. This has led to the current crisis and problems. At least the current crop of Ministers have at long last recognised the issue, hence 'Northern Powerhouse'. Hope it works out.
We seem to agree in the most part I think.
crankedup said:
Norman Tebbit infamously told unemployed people during the 1980's to 'get on your bike' to find work. He clearly overlooked the small problem of housing cost, even back the.! Where there is plenty of work witness the cost of housing.
CHEAP HOUSING = No work
Nearly 5000 jobs available within 10 miles of Sheffield, where as above a house can be had for <£60k.CHEAP HOUSING = No work
No work? Overpriced housing? Or just spoon fed hyperbole from whingers?
technodup said:
crankedup said:
The problem I mention is National, especially in the South of England.
No it's not. The south is affected by London and commuters who can't afford/don't want to live in London.In pretty much every other city in the country you can buy a house for £70k, or 3x the average salary, and some a lot less than that. Will it be a palace? No. But then people who earn the square root of f
k all shouldn't be expecting to live in barn conversions, Cheshire mansions or Edinburgh townhouses.Of course anybody can pick out cheaper housing stock anywhere in the U.K. That's the easy bit. The problem arises when said young couple living and working in the S.E. or London say to each other 'oh look a nice house in the Midlands (or wherever) and its only 70k. Then they realise that they cannot find the work they are trained for and support the mortgage. Taken to its limit it means a drain of these young people from expensive areas into cheap areas that do not / have not got enough work to support the influx.
RichB said:
technodup said:
crankedup said:
The problem I mention is National, especially in the South of England.
No it's not. The south is affected by London and commuters who can't afford/don't want to live in London.In pretty much every other city in the country you can buy a house for £70k, or 3x the average salary, and some a lot less than that. Will it be a palace? No. But then people who earn the square root of f
k all shouldn't be expecting to live in barn conversions, Cheshire mansions or Edinburgh townhouses.The Don of Croy said:
crankedup said:
Norman Tebbit infamously told unemployed people during the 1980's to 'get on your bike' to find work. He clearly overlooked the small problem of housing cost, even back the.! Where there is plenty of work witness the cost of housing.
CHEAP HOUSING = No work
My recollection of that quote was Tebbit referring to his own father's experience of finding work - "He got on his bike" what's sauce for the goose etc.CHEAP HOUSING = No work
If the housing cost cannot be born by the workers, either their earnings rise to meet the cost of the housing or the work will go begging, until workers can afford it. Supply and demand.
Interestingly when my son was working at Thoresby coal mine in 2013 nearly all the face workers were Scottish. It seems there are more than a few PH posters who have moved to follow jobs. I've done it too. These migrants are doing it. Why not try it?
Its not just a matter of a jobs market either, consider people that have just retired perhaps have a decent little nest egg. They retire into some lovely little village and up go the prices, because people want to live in nice areas. Also those parents (us baby boomers) are helping our kids with house deposits, those not in that situation lose out. With respect, perhaps the situation is more complex than perhaps you believe it to be.
crankedup said:
Your recollection of the infamous Tebbit quote is wrong, however, the quote still is relevant and still so out of real world its a joke.
His recollection is not wrong at all.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sU_pDM1N7i0
crankedup said:
Your recollection of the infamous Tebbit quote is wrong, however, the quote still is relevant and still so out of real world its a joke.
His recollection is not wrong at all.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sU_pDM1N7i0
technodup said:
crankedup said:
Norman Tebbit infamously told unemployed people during the 1980's to 'get on your bike' to find work. He clearly overlooked the small problem of housing cost, even back the.! Where there is plenty of work witness the cost of housing.
CHEAP HOUSING = No work
Nearly 5000 jobs available within 10 miles of Sheffield, where as above a house can be had for <£60k.CHEAP HOUSING = No work
No work? Overpriced housing? Or just spoon fed hyperbole from whingers?
Do you think that some of the 17,000 steel workers just made redundant will want those jobs?
Sure there are a few 'spoon fed whingers' I expect but these do not account for the overall National situation regarding the chronic shortage of affordable housing in the U.K.
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