Jeremy Corbyn

[Axionknight]

Aye, half a million cars in a year - that is something else, I wonder where it ranks in terms of global output?

[NoNeed]

Axionknight said:

Aye, half a million cars in a year - that is something else, I wonder where it ranks in terms of global output?

I read anews article once that described it as the third most productive plant in the world per worker.

[Sway]

NoNeed said:

Axionknight said:

Aye, half a million cars in a year - that is something else, I wonder where it ranks in terms of global output?

I read anews article once that described it as the third most productive plant in the world per worker.

I understand it produces more cars than the proud automotive nation of Italy.

[NoNeed]

Sway said:

NoNeed said:

Axionknight said:

Aye, half a million cars in a year - that is something else, I wonder where it ranks in terms of global output?

I read anews article once that described it as the third most productive plant in the world per worker.

I understand it produces more cars than the proud automotive nation of Italy.

WOW, now that is an interesting fact. I wonder what happenedto the interesting facts thread?

[anonymous-user]

Axionknight said:

Aye, half a million cars in a year - that is something else, I wonder where it ranks in terms of global output?

In between hotpoint and zanussi.

[anonymous-user]

As a centre-lefty, I see two objections to Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party. One is pragmatic and one is principled. The pragmatic objection is that Corbyn will render Labour even more unelectable than it already is and virtually guarantee many more years of Tory rule. The principled objection is that Corbyn is a supporter of and apologist for dictators and other enemies of freedom. He consorts with those who hate women, gay people, Jews, and freedom itself. Sounds like the typical PH'er! [joke]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/james-bloodworth-left-win...

All of the other candidates are dire, but Corbyn is worse than dire.

[Blib]

Breadvan72 said:

As a centre-lefty, I see two objections to Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party. One is pragmatic and one is principled. The pragmatic objection is that Corbyn will render Labour even more unelectable than it already is and virtually guarantee many more years of Tory rule. The principled objection is that Corbyn is a supporter of and apologist for dictators and other enemies of freedom. He consorts with those who hate women, gay people, Jews, and freedom itself. Sounds like the typical PH'er! [joke]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/james-bloodworth-left-win...

All of the other candidates are dire, but Corbyn is worse than dire.

I agree with this. Corbyn is an unreconstructed anti-semite. He has shared platforms with speakers openly calling for the destruction of Israel and he calls Hamas his friends.

He is no cuddly, provincial geography teacher.

I'm looking forward to him becoming leader of the Labour Party. He will be torn to shreds on the dispatch box. It's such an open goal that even that chump Cameron cannot fail to score week after week after week.

Every time Corbyn stands up, his despicable record will be hurled into his face. And, he won't get much help from the vast majority of his backbenchers.

As an erstwhile Labour voter, I believe that this impending Corbyn debacle will be a good thing for the party in the medium to long term. Let the lunatics run that particular asylum for a while and see what pans out.

[anonymous-user]

I had huge respect for Michael Foot, a deeply principled man and veteran opponent of Fascism, but he was a disaster as leader. That allowed the much maligned but actually rather effective (as a party saviour) Kinnock to come in and clean house. Blair went too far to the right, and did lots of unlawful stuff, but some good stuff too, now buried under his criminal record. Maybe a period in the wilderness led by the hateful Corbyn (who is not fit to brush Michael Foot's donkey jacket*) will produce a better leader for the future, but meanwhile the Tories will make hay.


* It wasn't a donkey jacket. It was a short coat, reasonably smart, but Foot had no spin doctors to advise him not to wear it.

[ianrb]

Breadvan72 said:

As a centre-lefty, I see two objections to Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party. One is pragmatic and one is principled. The pragmatic objection is that Corbyn will render Labour even more unelectable than it already is and virtually guarantee many more years of Tory rule. The principled objection is that Corbyn is a supporter of and apologist for dictators and other enemies of freedom. He consorts with those who hate women, gay people, Jews, and freedom itself. Sounds like the typical PH'er! [joke]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/james-bloodworth-left-win...

All of the other candidates are dire, but Corbyn is worse than dire.

Well I'm a centre-righty, but my main concern about Corbyn is that he will not be able to form an effective opposition, and so allow the Tories to do more or less as they please. Which for a democracy is not a good idea. I would have the same concerns about a powerful Labour government and a week Tory opposition.

[Andy Zarse]

Breadvan72 said:

I had huge respect for Michael Foot, a deeply principled man and veteran opponent of Fascism, but he was a disaster as leader. That allowed the much maligned but actually rather effective (as a party saviour) Kinnock to come in and clean house. Blair went too far to the right, and did lots of unlawful stuff, but some good stuff too, now buried under his criminal record. Maybe a period in the wilderness led by the hateful Corbyn (who is not fit to brush Michael Foot's donkey jacket*) will produce a better leader for the future, but meanwhile the Tories will make hay.


* It wasn't a donkey jacket. It was a short coat, reasonably smart, but Foot had no spin doctors to advise him not to wear it.

I recently heard a lovely story about Michael Foot. In the 1950s he was discussing Labour's official policy towards nuclear weapons with Ernie Bevin, in Foot's home. Bevin was a giant brawny Somerset farmer's lad and also one of the strongest Foreign Secretaries we ever had, and was very pro-nuclear. Foot of course was a founder of CND. The argument reached boiling point, at which Bevin picked up the dining room chair he'd been sitting on and smashed it to pieces on the floor whilst roaring "You , you , you fking !"

[turbobloke]

Andy Zarse said:

Breadvan72 said:

I had huge respect for Michael Foot, a deeply principled man and veteran opponent of Fascism, but he was a disaster as leader. That allowed the much maligned but actually rather effective (as a party saviour) Kinnock to come in and clean house. Blair went too far to the right, and did lots of unlawful stuff, but some good stuff too, now buried under his criminal record. Maybe a period in the wilderness led by the hateful Corbyn (who is not fit to brush Michael Foot's donkey jacket*) will produce a better leader for the future, but meanwhile the Tories will make hay.


* It wasn't a donkey jacket. It was a short coat, reasonably smart, but Foot had no spin doctors to advise him not to wear it.

I recently heard a lovely story about Michael Foot. In the 1950s he was discussing Labour's official policy towards nuclear weapons with Ernie Bevin, in Foot's home. Bevin was a giant brawny Somerset farmer's lad and also one of the strongest Foreign Secretaries we ever had, and was very pro-nuclear. Foot of course was a founder of CND. The argument reached boiling point, at which Bevin picked up the dining room chair he'd been sitting on and smashed it to pieces on the floor whilst roaring "You , you , you fking !"

And the irony is that if Foot had been elected PM, never mind fking he fking could

[anonymous-user]

ianrb said:

Well I'm a centre-righty, but my main concern about Corbyn is that he will not be able to form an effective opposition, and so allow the Tories to do more or less as they please. Which for a democracy is not a good idea. I would have the same concerns about a powerful Labour government and a week Tory opposition.

From the other side of the centre, I agree.

[otolith]

Breadvan72 said:

The principled objection is that Corbyn is a supporter of and apologist for dictators and other enemies of freedom. He consorts with those who hate women, gay people, Jews, and freedom itself.

It's interesting to note that the British Left did not always hate Israel 1 . I wonder whether the falling out was fundamentally about the treatment of the Palestinians or, as the article you link suggests, a friend-of-my-enemy analysis of Israel's relationship with the US?

1. #NotAllLefties

[anonymous-user]

I am a member of the British left and I have never hated Israel, although I deplore much of what Israel does. I know many others on the left who share this position. Israel for all its many faults remains the only functioning rule of law, free press and democracy civil society in the region.

Corbyn may not be an anti-semite (I am not sure), and not all opposition to Israeli policy is anti-semitic (I oppose Israeli policies on many things), but Corbyn consorts with out and out Jew haters, homophobes, assorted hatey nutters, and pays court to tyrants. He is the George Galloway for the knit your own yoghurt tribe.

I was a member of the Labour party in the 1980s when the selfish hard left betrayed millions of working people to the not so tender mercies of Thatcherism. 1980s music and fashion are back in, and 1980s cars are still as cool as they ever were (I have two of the things), but I do not want to go back to the 1980s.

[otolith]

Yes, hence the caveat. But Corbyn's views on Israel and the friends he chooses are by no means unusual. There are many to whom Israel is as much a pariah as South Africa was, and they're not drawing distinctions between the sin and the sinner.

[citizensm1th]

otolith said:

Yes, hence the caveat. But Corbyn's views on Israel and the friends he chooses are by no means unusual. There are many to whom Israel is as much a pariah as South Africa was, and they're not drawing distinctions between the sin and the sinner.

I am one of those who view some of Israel's domestic and foreign polices to be as bad as those of apartheid South Africa (I seem to remember they were quite close allies).
How ever that dose not make me anti Semitic how ever much the Israeli government likes to paint people who object to their polices as being.

Corbyn is a necessary evil for the labour party. The current crop of leadership candidates are completely substandard. I think some time getting soundly pilloried in parliament and the press will allow I hope time for far better candidates to emerge.

[otolith]

The criticism of Corbyn and those of his ilk on this matter is a bit more nuanced than the idea that objecting to Israel's policies is the same as anti-Semitism; I know Jews who feel that way.

[Blib]

otolith said:

The criticism of Corbyn and those of his ilk on this matter is a bit more nuanced than the idea that objecting to Israel's policies is the same as anti-Semitism; I know Jews who feel that way.

Absolutely.

[johnxjsc1985]

otolith said:

The criticism of Corbyn and those of his ilk on this matter is a bit more nuanced than the idea that objecting to Israel's policies is the same as anti-Semitism; I know Jews who feel that way.

At least the man has an opinion something Politicians these days never have.They can't decide if they have milk and sugar in their tea.

[otolith]

When opposition politicians want to express clear, simple solutions to complex problems, I am reminded of HL Mencken;

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."