Jeremy Corbyn

[turbobloke]

Langweilig said:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/641591/Jeremy-...

[dav123a]

turbobloke said:

dav123a said:

turbobloke said:

ISWYM but in another sense you can't opt for the more efficient and effective council down the road to run your local services either, you only get to vote once in a while which may result a bit of a change in some of the people local to you. It's still the council and it has a cosy permanent money supply on tap via taxes so the incentive to provide high quality services with the possibility of going bust if they don't win enough customers is absent. That's not a straightforward concept when there are essential services that need to be maintained but it's part of the equation.

I'm not convinced that local authority people genuinely consider themselves accountable to local people though they will lay claim to that attribute day in day out.

I wouldn't say most councils have a cosy money supply , alot of councils round this way have had 40% cuts in budgets.

Which no doubt were used to make headline grabbing reductions in service provision for the sake of demonstrating how evil the government is or how essential the LA is, rather than the better option of sacking a management layer or two, particularly top end desk jockeys who make the service cuts while preserving their own pension.
--Nice idea but sacking all the managers would have little effect probably a couple of % toward the final total. Certainly my local council have roughly halved the number of senior managers.

Also, that angle assumes there's nothing more that can be done about fraud, waste and error rather than keep topping up the leaky bucket, and that the previous funding levels under Labour weren't generous when the Coalition and then the Conservatives took the helm.

We're dealing with the public sector here. The funding will never dry up. Councils are sitting on tens of £millions of reserves for a rainy day, maybe they should look out of the window occasionally. There's no need for complete depletion, merely appropriate use when times are hard and people need servicces, like now maybe.
--As I said my council needs to find £85 million in cuts their reserves are about £25 million. They are using the reserves to smooth out the cuts. Once they gone then what you still need to make cuts.

dav123a said:

I would have councils hive this bit into an arms length company that stands on its own feet. Your last paragraph is probably right for some employees but its probably true for private utility companies as well.

Yes possibly so.

Neighbouting coulcils have been collaborating for some time now in terms of providing better vfm in service provision, more of this is needed and we need to be sure that where two departments see their service combined, an appropriate number of middle and senior managers are sacked.

There were too many public sector jobs created under Brown the Profligate and I'm convinced there's room for more to go with people upskilling for work in the private sector, if they can survive the culture shock in the new environment which will in general be far more tuned to customers...otherwise the customers will walk, which as per my post above they/we can't do as 'customers' of their local council.

http://www.hrreview.co.uk/hr-news/strategy-news/pu...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pu...

[turbobloke]

dav123a said:

As I said my council needs to find £85 million in cuts their reserves are about £25 million. They are using the reserves to smooth out the cuts. Once they gone then what you still need to make cuts.

The council need to explain why, if £85m is needed, the Council keeps the entire £25 million doing nothing except earn a pittance in interest? There's no excuse I can think of for not earmarking at least £5m for the most urgent service needs for the most deserving 'customers'.

Then get busy sacking the highest-paid acting temporary assistant deputy penpushers.

As for the cut, and as I also mentioned previously, I don't necessarily accept on the basis of nothing but historical Labour largesse that the former level of funding needs to be restored. There's a lot more that Councils could and should do to reduce fraud, waste and error (and increase vfm via collaboration) as a priority or two. However it's only other people's money and more will be along soon.

[Cobnapint]

turbobloke said:

They missed 'less' off the end.

[dav123a]

turbobloke said:

The council need to explain why, if £85m is needed, the Council keeps the entire £25 million doing nothing except earn a pittance in interest? There's no excuse I can think of for not earmarking at least £5m for the most urgent service needs for the most deserving 'customers'.

Then get busy sacking the highest-paid acting temporary assistant deputy penpushers.

As for the cut, and as I also mentioned previously, I don't necessarily accept on the basis of nothing but historical Labour largesse that the former level of funding needs to be restored. There's a lot more that Councils could and should do to reduce fraud, waste and error (and increase vfm via collaboration) as a priority or two. However it's only other people's money and more will be along soon.

They aren't as I said they are using it to help smooth the cuts but when its gone its gone. And you still need the cuts.

They have already sacked half the managers. Now what sack more till there's none left ?

Having worked for the public sector I agree waste can be cut , I would get rid of the crazy situation where some parts of the country there are 3 councils in one area. I think where people stand on this depends how much they use the council or depend on it.

[iSore]

Northern Munkee said:

This ^^^^ pretty much is it for me.

I should tribally be a labour voter, however I'm also old enough to remember the 70s growing up, power cuts, strikes, and simply couldn't trust them again, it's clear a majority of normal 'working people' pragmatically realise that the strikes over pay in the 70s and lack of productivity, could not go on, and were prepared to tolerate Thatcher, as a pragmatic and necessary adjustment, they gave Labour another go when they put up a reasonably (I know...) sensible candidate in Blair - I may have voted for him in '97 (and if I did it was the only time) but eventually he went bad (on Iraq) and left a massive hole in the roof ("there's no more money") and credit card debt and nothing saved to fix it. You just know with less brains and more ideological dogma and special pleading groups having the whip hand that they'll be spineless, ideologically driven to fk it all up again and many including JC hate this country. Just couldn't bring myself to vote for them, and I say this from my northern inner city safe labour tribal seat and public sector job. They just cannot be trusted on the economy and now security again.

Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 6th February 10:56

Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 6th February 10:57

I'd agree with all of that. I'm old enough to recall the never ending power cuts, folks at home (three day week), the stink of rotting rubbish from unemptied bins and having to take in an old dear from next door when the power went off for hours - no heating, no fk all. As a child I knew this was rubbish. In mid 1978 my Mum went to the local Austin Morris dealers to enquire about a new Mini 1000 to replace our rusting 1970 Clubman to be told that there were none available, Longbridge were on strike and they gave a vague three month estimate for delivery. In September she took (almost immediate) delivery of EYA606T, a new 900cc VW Polo L, the first of eight Volkswagens.

I can still remember that day in 1979 when our headmaster came into our class to gleefully announce that Labour were finally out the door and Maggie was in.


Corbyn is a terrible idiot, and most folk know it. The Conservatives need someone to hold them to account for their less wonderful ideas but this clueless prick is not it.

[turbobloke]

dav123a said:

...they are using it to help smooth the cuts but when its gone its gone...

I specifically suggested avoiding complete depletion.

dav123a said:

They have already sacked half the managers. Now what sack more till there's none left ?

Collaboration with a neighbouring council or councils is next and if it's happening already then use the experience to repeat in a different area.

dav123a said:

Having worked for the public sector I agree waste can be cut, I would get rid of the crazy situation where some parts of the country there are 3 councils in one area.

OK

dav123a said:

I think where people stand on this depends how much they use the council or depend on it.

Yes and I've suggested already that those who are genuinely deserving and most in need but currently unfunded, supposedly due to cuts, could benefit from say 20% of reserves being used to supplement taxes.

Equally, while those getting the inputs won't want it stopped, there are people paying for it who want to see vfm and both perspectives are reasonable but usually the first is highlighted and the second ignored.

The problem is that the people involved want headlines portraying them as much-needed saints and the government as the devil, and anything that might keep the BBC and Guardian off their case, such as actually helping more people with a modest additional use of reserves, won't be widespread.

If you don't mind and if it's available, and based on your posts, it would be of interest to see council minutes / reports / papers as routinely published online these days which detail the sacking of 50% of managers and the extent / type of use of reserve funds. Having posted the information, presumably it came from somewhere official?

[dav123a]

turbobloke said:

dav123a said:

...they are using it to help smooth the cuts but when its gone its gone...

I specifically suggested avoiding complete depletion.
-- ah missed that my mistake.

dav123a said:

They have already sacked half the managers. Now what sack more till there's none left ?

Collaboration with a neighbouring council or councils is next and if it's happening already then use the experience to repeat in a different area.

--- ongoing though some services in one council have privatised and in another not so a little tricky to mesh together. But generally speaking I agree with this.

dav123a said:

Having worked for the public sector I agree waste can be cut, I would get rid of the crazy situation where some parts of the country there are 3 councils in one area.

OK

dav123a said:

I think where people stand on this depends how much they use the council or depend on it.

Yes and I've suggested already that those who are genuinely deserving and most in need but currently unfunded, supposedly due to cuts, could benefit from say 20% of reserves being used to supplement taxes.

--- is this as a one off ? If so what about next year. If not what happens when the reserves run out ?

Equally, while those getting the inputs won't want it stopped, there are people paying for it who want to see vfm and both perspectives are reasonable but usually the first is highlighted and the second ignored.

--- I'm not sure that's the case. I see both arguments made , by the government on one hand and say disabled groups on the other.

The problem is that the people involved want headlines portraying them as much-needed saints and the government as the devil, and anything that might keep the BBC and Guardian off their case, such as actually helping more people with a modest additional use of reserves, won't be widespread.
-- the problem is that the cuts are so big efficiency savings won't make the gap up. Services have to be cut so its a little difficult for councils to say anything but that.

If you don't mind and if it's available, and based on your posts, it would be of interest to see council minutes / reports / papers as routinely published online these days which detail the sacking of 50% of managers and the extent / type of use of reserve funds. Having posted the information, presumably it came from somewhere official?

--- It was official , it was an internal document from the head of finance. Though I should say to be clear it wasn't all managers just those at a senior level. None were sacked as such. That level of management went through a review , job description were re-written and then they all had to reapply for said posts. Of which there was about half the number.

[Northern Munkee]

iSore said:

Northern Munkee said:

This ^^^^ pretty much is it for me.

I should tribally be a labour voter, however I'm also old enough to remember the 70s growing up, power cuts, strikes, and simply couldn't trust them again, it's clear a majority of normal 'working people' pragmatically realise that the strikes over pay in the 70s and lack of productivity, could not go on, and were prepared to tolerate Thatcher, as a pragmatic and necessary adjustment, they gave Labour another go when they put up a reasonably (I know...) sensible candidate in Blair - I may have voted for him in '97 (and if I did it was the only time) but eventually he went bad (on Iraq) and left a massive hole in the roof ("there's no more money") and credit card debt and nothing saved to fix it. You just know with less brains and more ideological dogma and special pleading groups having the whip hand that they'll be spineless, ideologically driven to fk it all up again and many including JC hate this country. Just couldn't bring myself to vote for them, and I say this from my northern inner city safe labour tribal seat and public sector job. They just cannot be trusted on the economy and now security again.

Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 6th February 10:56

Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 6th February 10:57

I'd agree with all of that. I'm old enough to recall the never ending power cuts, folks at home (three day week), the stink of rotting rubbish from unemptied bins and having to take in an old dear from next door when the power went off for hours - no heating, no fk all. As a child I knew this was rubbish. In mid 1978 my Mum went to the local Austin Morris dealers to enquire about a new Mini 1000 to replace our rusting 1970 Clubman to be told that there were none available, Longbridge were on strike and they gave a vague three month estimate for delivery. In September she took (almost immediate) delivery of EYA606T, a new 900cc VW Polo L, the first of eight Volkswagens.

I can still remember that day in 1979 when our headmaster came into our class to gleefully announce that Labour were finally out the door and Maggie was in.


Corbyn is a terrible idiot, and most folk know it. The Conservatives need someone to hold them to account for their less wonderful ideas but this clueless prick is not it.

Being able to remember the 70s and the shower st labour were in opposition through the 80s, is why (I hope) I feel out of touch with young people, at least the very vocal ones, who appear so idealistic, if not incredibly naive, but I reconcile they have no idea as they've not seen this all before, as the older generation have.

Agreed I wish there were an intelligent opposition to hold them to account, although I don't see anyone in the Corbynite or from the Brown or Blair-rite wings of party to lead it. We have the politicians we deserve and for the most part they are all pretty poor in all parties. Is there anyone who you could call a heavyweight or a statesman? In any party.

[BlackLabel]

Let's see what Comrade Corbyn does about this. Given his much vaunted "new politics" I'm sure Jezza will come down hard on these sexist councillors.



A leading women’s charity have written a letter to Jeremy Corbyn to complain about “systematic misogyny” which saw female Muslims being blocked from seeking office by male Labour councillors.

[gazza285]

Northern Munkee said:

iSore said:

Northern Munkee said:

This ^^^^ pretty much is it for me.

I should tribally be a labour voter, however I'm also old enough to remember the 70s growing up, power cuts, strikes, and simply couldn't trust them again, it's clear a majority of normal 'working people' pragmatically realise that the strikes over pay in the 70s and lack of productivity, could not go on, and were prepared to tolerate Thatcher, as a pragmatic and necessary adjustment, they gave Labour another go when they put up a reasonably (I know...) sensible candidate in Blair - I may have voted for him in '97 (and if I did it was the only time) but eventually he went bad (on Iraq) and left a massive hole in the roof ("there's no more money") and credit card debt and nothing saved to fix it. You just know with less brains and more ideological dogma and special pleading groups having the whip hand that they'll be spineless, ideologically driven to fk it all up again and many including JC hate this country. Just couldn't bring myself to vote for them, and I say this from my northern inner city safe labour tribal seat and public sector job. They just cannot be trusted on the economy and now security again.

Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 6th February 10:56

Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 6th February 10:57

I'd agree with all of that. I'm old enough to recall the never ending power cuts, folks at home (three day week), the stink of rotting rubbish from unemptied bins and having to take in an old dear from next door when the power went off for hours - no heating, no fk all. As a child I knew this was rubbish. In mid 1978 my Mum went to the local Austin Morris dealers to enquire about a new Mini 1000 to replace our rusting 1970 Clubman to be told that there were none available, Longbridge were on strike and they gave a vague three month estimate for delivery. In September she took (almost immediate) delivery of EYA606T, a new 900cc VW Polo L, the first of eight Volkswagens.

I can still remember that day in 1979 when our headmaster came into our class to gleefully announce that Labour were finally out the door and Maggie was in.


Corbyn is a terrible idiot, and most folk know it. The Conservatives need someone to hold them to account for their less wonderful ideas but this clueless prick is not it.

Being able to remember the 70s and the shower st labour were in opposition through the 80s, is why (I hope) I feel out of touch with young people, at least the very vocal ones, who appear so idealistic, if not incredibly naive, but I reconcile they have no idea as they've not seen this all before, as the older generation have.

Agreed I wish there were an intelligent opposition to hold them to account, although I don't see anyone in the Corbynite or from the Brown or Blair-rite wings of party to lead it. We have the politicians we deserve and for the most part they are all pretty poor in all parties. Is there anyone who you could call a heavyweight or a statesman? In any party.

What amuses me, coming from and working with people from the heartlands of the Northern Labour voter, is that most of the staunch left wing voters from up here are the most racially bigoted misogynists I know. The Barnsley ex-miner is not a fan of immigration, doesn't like blacks or 's', and isn't a big on women's rights. They do like drinking beer and smoking in men only working men's clubs though.

[johnxjsc1985]

gazza285 said:

What amuses me, coming from and working with people from the heartlands of the Northern Labour voter, is that most of the staunch left wing voters from up here are the most racially bigoted misogynists I know. The Barnsley ex-miner is not a fan of immigration, doesn't like blacks or 's', and isn't a big on women's rights. They do like drinking beer and smoking in men only working men's clubs though.

look at Liverpool and then see what Labour Gov's have ever done for the City... nothing but they vote them in everytime

[technodup]

dav123a said:

They aren't as I said they are using it to help smooth the cuts but when its gone its gone. And you still need the cuts.

No you don't.

Councils should be raising their own money to cover the shortfall. They could be offering enhanced services to consumers or businesses, selling advertising space or a million other things. They usually have hundreds of thousands of 'customers' who know and 'trust' them. They should be thinking like businesses and utilising that opportunity instead of whining about big bad government cuts and generally blaming everyone else but themselves.

All they actually do is distribute other peoples money. Let's see them actually generate some of their own.

[johnxjsc1985]

technodup said:

o you don't.

Councils should be raising their own money to cover the shortfall. They could be offering enhanced services to consumers or businesses, selling advertising space or a million other things. They usually have hundreds of thousands of 'customers' who know and 'trust' them. They should be thinking like businesses and utilising that opportunity instead of whining about big bad government cuts and generally blaming everyone else but themselves.

All they actually do is distribute other peoples money. Let's see them actually generate some of their own.

have you ever met any Councillors they could no more generate revenue for their city or town than I could discover Life on Mars

[Stickyfinger]

johnxjsc1985 said:

have you ever met any Councillors they could no more generate revenue for their city or town than I could discover Life on Mars

The quantity of the "Employed staff" is also dreadful, especially the so called financial management teams who could not get a job in the real world if they tried.

[johnxjsc1985]

Stickyfinger said:

The quantity of the "Employed staff" is also dreadful, especially the so called financial management teams who could not get a job in the real world if they tried.

my very much better half has worked in the employ of a council for many many years .I don't know how she still has a full head of hair because the way they run their "business" is truly mind blowing and the level of bureaucracy is legendary . To quote a well known phrase they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

[irocfan]

Stickyfinger said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

have you ever met any Councillors they could no more generate revenue for their city or town than I could discover Life on Mars

The quantity of the "Employed staff" is also dreadful, especially the so called financial management teams who could not get a job in the real world if they tried.

what's even funnier you try getting a job in that sector...

[Wills2]

gazza285 said:

What amuses me, coming from and working with people from the heartlands of the Northern Labour voter, is that most of the staunch left wing voters from up here are the most racially bigoted misogynists I know. The Barnsley ex-miner is not a fan of immigration, doesn't like blacks or 's', and isn't a big on women's rights. They do like drinking beer and smoking in men only working men's clubs though.

This in many ways is the biggest contradiction that labour have their core support is generally as you describe yet the MP's come over all right on, It gets even worse in the northern mill towns women's/gay rights in BD4....you're having a laugh!

[Halb]

PM JC....
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn...

[dav123a]

technodup said:

o you don't.

Councils should be raising their own money to cover the shortfall. They could be offering enhanced services to consumers or businesses, selling advertising space or a million other things. They usually have hundreds of thousands of 'customers' who know and 'trust' them. They should be thinking like businesses and utilising that opportunity instead of whining about big bad government cuts and generally blaming everyone else but themselves.

All they actually do is distribute other peoples money. Let's see them actually generate some of their own.

The very nature of councils is of course they distribute money , most councils money is spent on older people and children. They have complex needs not much money to be made there. My local council does generate external income but is limited due to the decreased head count.