Discussion
The reality might be that Corbyn is not hungry to be elected. Instead he may believe that Labour has become too detached from what the party originally was and should be now, and needs realigning. If that's the case, the mandate from the people he views as 'proper Labour supporters' are the important thing, and the views of those he sees as responsible for Labour drifting into the wrong territory are irrelevant.
To the middle ground, careerist Labour MPs, Corbyn is the German Wings pilot purposely heading for a pointy bit in the Alps.
To the middle ground, careerist Labour MPs, Corbyn is the German Wings pilot purposely heading for a pointy bit in the Alps.
janesmith1950 said:
The reality might be that Corbyn is not hungry to be elected. Instead he may believe that Labour has become too detached from what the party originally was and should be now, and needs realigning. If that's the case, the mandate from the people he views as 'proper Labour supporters' are the important thing, and the views of those he sees as responsible for Labour drifting into the wrong territory are irrelevant.
To the middle ground, careerist Labour MPs, Corbyn is the German Wings pilot purposely heading for a pointy bit in the Alps.
This is for me where the problem lies - you just effectively become a party of protest. I remember distinctly back to when the poll tax riots happened to when we were in recession in the late 80's early 90's and yet, the public still would not vote Labour. In the last 100 years save Blair and Brown there has been a Labour Govt very sporadically. When I hear this 'middle ground careerist' talk what is wrong with that? Whats the point in going into politics if all you do is stick to an outdated set of principles that no one will vote for? The basic fact is the left alienate a section of society as do the right and you have to find a way which is very difficult at times to try to appeal to as many as the electorate you can. Blair is considered nowadays as absolutely toxic mainly because of Iraq but things like bringing in the National Minimum wage was definitely a left wing policy that the Unions applauded so much the tories have now tried to adopt it as the national living wage. Corbyn has hoped that by going back to the policies that got Labour booted out and kept out will somehow get him re-elected and whilst the unions may be happy the public and indeed long term labour supporters (not the £3 bingo members) will walk away. I find his breathtaking arrogance in the face of 80% of his own party not prepared to back him as deplorable. To the middle ground, careerist Labour MPs, Corbyn is the German Wings pilot purposely heading for a pointy bit in the Alps.
The Don of Croy said:
Pat Glass (no, me neither) has also resigned.
At what stage does someone nominate Stephen Kinnock as the inevitable saviour (D Miliband being otherwise engaged)?
I hadn't heard of her either. No surprise as she was only appointed to her post on Monday in his reshuffle.At what stage does someone nominate Stephen Kinnock as the inevitable saviour (D Miliband being otherwise engaged)?
janesmith1950 said:
The reality might be that Corbyn is not hungry to be elected. Instead he may believe that Labour has become too detached from what the party originally was and should be now, and needs realigning. If that's the case, the mandate from the people he views as 'proper Labour supporters' are the important thing, and the views of those he sees as responsible for Labour drifting into the wrong territory are irrelevant.
To the middle ground, careerist Labour MPs, Corbyn is the German Wings pilot purposely heading for a pointy bit in the Alps.
I still think it's a pretty poor show that everyone has chosen now to stick the knife in when what the country really needs is stability from its leadership.To the middle ground, careerist Labour MPs, Corbyn is the German Wings pilot purposely heading for a pointy bit in the Alps.
DJFish said:
I still think it's a pretty poor show that everyone has chosen now to stick the knife in when what the country really needs is stability from its leadership.
I think these careerist types, in the best way of Littlefinger can see the opportunity to get away with murder in the current time..long live the party of the long knives. andy-xr said:
I think Corbyn just got his arse handed to him on PMQs
It's a shame in a way because he seems like a decent guy, he's just too talky talky without getting anywhere and doesnt show any signs of leadership
Sorry but only if you think PMQs is a game and the winner is the guy who comes up with the nastiest insult or best soundbite. It's a shame in a way because he seems like a decent guy, he's just too talky talky without getting anywhere and doesnt show any signs of leadership
He asked relevant questions and for once got semi informative replies. It is not supposed to be a competition of who can be most bhy and sarcastic.
I do agree he isn't a great leader though... but half the problem is that people refuse to listen to the content. We are entering an era of fact free politics at the moment - Brexit, Trump, etc. It is all about hyperbolic statements and 'personality', unfortunately Jeremy doesn't do either.
VolvoT5 said:
andy-xr said:
I think Corbyn just got his arse handed to him on PMQs
It's a shame in a way because he seems like a decent guy, he's just too talky talky without getting anywhere and doesnt show any signs of leadership
Sorry but only if you think PMQs is a game and the winner is the guy who comes up with the nastiest insult or best soundbite. It's a shame in a way because he seems like a decent guy, he's just too talky talky without getting anywhere and doesnt show any signs of leadership
He asked relevant questions and for once got semi informative replies. It is not supposed to be a competition of who can be most bhy and sarcastic.
I do agree he isn't a great leader though... but half the problem is that people refuse to listen to the content. We are entering an era of fact free politics at the moment - Brexit, Trump, etc. It is all about hyperbolic statements and 'personality', unfortunately Jeremy doesn't do either.
VolvoT5 said:
Sorry but only if you think PMQs is a game and the winner is the guy who comes up with the nastiest insult or best soundbite.
.
It kind of is - much as Corbyn wants to reinvent politics, it's a game that needs good strategy and strong tactics, especially infront of the house. Maneuvering in certain ways is expected and the good ones, the ones who dont slime their way around (there are a few) do this really really well, without (much)politicspeak .
janesmith1950 said:
The reality might be that Corbyn is not hungry to be elected. Instead he may believe that Labour has become too detached from what the party originally was and should be now, and needs realigning. If that's the case, the mandate from the people he views as 'proper Labour supporters' are the important thing, and the views of those he sees as responsible for Labour drifting into the wrong territory are irrelevant.
To the middle ground, careerist Labour MPs, Corbyn is the German Wings pilot purposely heading for a pointy bit in the Alps.
Curious situation really. The MPs in the PLP didn't magically materialise out of thin air, they won seats in the General Election, presumably through the votes of Labour members and supporters. Does that suggest they weren't the same members and supportes who voted for Corbyn, in which case their voter base has fractured? I can sort of see his point regarding a leadership challenge being undemocratic, but at the same time, those calling for him to step down were elected by their constituents, so they could likewise claim to have a mandate. Possibly greater, as they went to the country, not just existing support.To the middle ground, careerist Labour MPs, Corbyn is the German Wings pilot purposely heading for a pointy bit in the Alps.
Were I Tim Farron, I'd be making serious below the radar overtures to as many disaffected PLP members as I possibly could. I know they've said they'll run on a pro-EU ticket, and whilst that's unlikely to succeed, they (and the SNP, Greens, Plaid, even disgruntled Tories) could form a pretty serious opposition block, which is what we need during what's likely to be prolonged and doubtless often bitter negotiations, assuming of course Article 50 ever gets triggered. I can't see how Corbyn or Watson have any hope of being a moderating force?
berty37 said:
When I hear this 'middle ground careerist' talk what is wrong with that? Whats the point in going into politics if all you do is stick to an outdated set of principles that no one will vote for? .
Nothing wrong with being centre-left, everything wrong with having no principles and saying anything to get elected.The choice shouldn't be between Blair mark 2 and a "real" person from the hard left. Whatever happened to Labour leaders who were trying to improve the lot of the average working man?
A friend just floated an interesting theory.
Chilcott Enquiry is due out in the next couple of weeks.
Corbyn has said that he would push for Blair to be tried for war crimes.
Blair has pushed in the background to get rid of Corbyn before he can do so?
Or should I just my tin foil hat on and go sit in the cupboard?
Chilcott Enquiry is due out in the next couple of weeks.
Corbyn has said that he would push for Blair to be tried for war crimes.
Blair has pushed in the background to get rid of Corbyn before he can do so?
Or should I just my tin foil hat on and go sit in the cupboard?
I do agree, it is up to him. They are the rules in the Party and they should be applied and followed, it is NOT for the PLP to circumvent those as each and every one of them is only there due to the National Party rules..
The fact he is staying (it seems) is up to him as said, but it does reflect what a blind old Trot he really is.
The fact he is staying (it seems) is up to him as said, but it does reflect what a blind old Trot he really is.
Trevatanus said:
A friend just floated an interesting theory.
Chilcott Enquiry is due out in the next couple of weeks.
Corbyn has said that he would push for Blair to be tried for war crimes.
Blair has pushed in the background to get rid of Corbyn before he can do so?
Or should I just my tin foil hat on and go sit in the cupboard?
Corbyn loathes Blair with a vengeance so nothing would suprise me Chilcott Enquiry is due out in the next couple of weeks.
Corbyn has said that he would push for Blair to be tried for war crimes.
Blair has pushed in the background to get rid of Corbyn before he can do so?
Or should I just my tin foil hat on and go sit in the cupboard?
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