Jeremy Corbyn

[Sway]

Halb said:

The Don of Croy said:

Derek Smith said:

...Corbyn was democratically elected. Everyone had a vote, if they wanted to. Suddenly the people had a vote as to who would lead them. There will be no such democracy with the tory leadership election of course...

I know it was a long time ago, but didn't the Tories elect IDS under some mass-voting scheme? They recognised the error (the membership may not always pick an election winner) and changed back to the 'safer' system.

Halb said:

When he got in I was hoping it would lead to a more adult logical type of discussing politics in the chamber and flood out, but Cameron managed one QT, and got back to bks as normal shortly after, and looking round at how the brexit referendum went, and the response to the result in life, and the type of posts we get on here...I think that dream of adults talking has been put back to bed for a while... biggrin
Back to business as normal soon enough I guess...

Are you the same Halb who demonstrated the 'type of posts we get on here' and 'adults talking' by asking this upthread-

Halb said:

Yeah but is she fit?

It was a tongue-well-in-cheek (understanding the position) joke, apologies if it offended you.

To be fair to Halb, we cross paths on quite a few threads on here - we share many common interests above cars (although a fight would be like the mountain vs oberon... ) and I took it as such.

I did mean to reply - she conforms to her father's view on feminism too (one of the main reasons his wife left him), so she may be fit, but I'd have to see through the Hagrid levels of follicle coverage to make a judgement. The sister on the other hand...

[Sway]

Have to say, whilst I originally was chuffed he became leader so the Conservatives could become properly Tory without much in the way of opposition, now the referendum is done we need someone decent at the Helm of the opposition.

I bloody hope the stories are true about his intentions regarding Blair once Chilcot is finally released, and that he stays until he can that done.

If he does, I'll rate him as the best Labour leader in my lifetime.

[Sam All]

Sway said:

Have to say, whilst I originally was chuffed he became leader so the Conservatives could become properly Tory without much in the way of opposition, now the referendum is done we need someone decent at the Helm of the opposition.

I bloody hope the stories are true about his intentions regarding Blair once Chilcot is finally released, and that he stays until he can that done.

If he does, I'll rate him as the best Labour leader in my lifetime.

There is that.

[ThunderGuts]

V8 Fettler said:

Labour are always shambolic unless they have strong leadership. Current events show how effective Blair and Campbell were.

Like hamster trying to herd retards.

[Andy Zarse]

Halb said:

Andy Zarse said:

This is why he has to go. Just where do you start with this cretinous fool?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3667717/Do...

I've read it.
Erm.
The MP was 'abused'? In the report it says some bloke accused her of working hand in hand with a paper.
That's the slur is it?

Then there's this from Twitter;

"Emily Thornberry phoned Israeli ambassador in London to apologise for any offence caused by Corbyn remarks today."

How inept do you have to be to organise a meeting to present your anti-semitism report and end up causing diplomatic offence!

[Andy Zarse]

Jeremy Corbyn has just released a statement. In which he spells his own name wrong. twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/s…

[Derek Smith]

230TE said:

I don't think he'd get the leadership if he did. His brother has put the party entirely at the mercy of the angry Twitter people, and the only way anyone will get the job is through being more Corbynist than Corbyn. It's worth having a quick look at the Morning Star online edition as it gives some insight into how these people think. It's not that (as some people have suggested) they aren't bothered whether Labour gets into government or not. They actually, genuinely believe that hard-left policies will sweep them to victory in 2020. No way are they going to give up their power to choose the leader.

My prediction FWIW is that Labour will split, with the moderates going off to form a new party (rule 1: don't let the members choose the leader), but Corbyn and his 50 or so loyalists get to keep the Labour brand. So in Labour heartlands the vote gets split three ways (Old Labour / New Labour / UKIP) and there is the faintly amusing possibility of ending up with Tory MPs in places like Rotherham and Doncaster. Amusing, except that if the white Northern working classes feel disenfranchised now, wait until they end up with a junior Conservative Party researcher from Guildford as their MP.

I think you will find that the Morning Star has a real circulation of about 8000. Probably less. 'These people' are a minority.

I think any split of the party will take into consideration the problems the last split caused for those who braved a new world. At one time the SDP had a rating of nearly 40% but they lacked the infrastructure to consolidate their new party. The gang of three (plus Owen) were Jenkins, Williams and Rodgers. There was some quality there. And Owen was there too.

Any break-away group might well have conversations with the liberals. They have the infrastructure but no MPs. An influx of labour disenchanted would leave Farron with a choice: does he allow the party to be overwhelmed or does he carry on with few MPs and the risk of a centre left party taking up his estranged supporters and, eventually, those remaining.

The problem for the group is that in four years time there will be a reckoning. They will, almost certainly, be deselected. Those constituency party members who were sympathetic to middle of the road politics will be identified and put in their place. And a left-winger will be put in his place.

A lot, as always, will depend on the actions of the press and other media outlets. The SDP got a lot of positive coverage as the lurching to the left labour scared the bosses of the editors. Nowadays, the papers will tend to follow what is best for their friends and might well attack any break-away, thinking it is a danger to a tory party in a degree of disarray.

But strange times. The Gang of Three, plus Owen, acted on principle, and the feeling I have is voting against Corbyn was a show of bottle, but leaving the safety of the party is something else entirely.

[Elroy Blue]

Growing calls for Dan Jarvis to step up. Ex Para Major. Hasn't lived in the Westminster bubble. Sensible so probably won't happen.

[230TE]

Derek Smith said:

I think you will find that the Morning Star has a real circulation of about 8000. Probably less. 'These people' are a minority.

I think any split of the party will take into consideration the problems the last split caused for those who braved a new world. At one time the SDP had a rating of nearly 40% but they lacked the infrastructure to consolidate their new party. The gang of three (plus Owen) were Jenkins, Williams and Rodgers. There was some quality there. And Owen was there too.

Any break-away group might well have conversations with the liberals. They have the infrastructure but no MPs. An influx of labour disenchanted would leave Farron with a choice: does he allow the party to be overwhelmed or does he carry on with few MPs and the risk of a centre left party taking up his estranged supporters and, eventually, those remaining.

The problem for the group is that in four years time there will be a reckoning. They will, almost certainly, be deselected. Those constituency party members who were sympathetic to middle of the road politics will be identified and put in their place. And a left-winger will be put in his place.

A lot, as always, will depend on the actions of the press and other media outlets. The SDP got a lot of positive coverage as the lurching to the left labour scared the bosses of the editors. Nowadays, the papers will tend to follow what is best for their friends and might well attack any break-away, thinking it is a danger to a tory party in a degree of disarray.

But strange times. The Gang of Three, plus Owen, acted on principle, and the feeling I have is voting against Corbyn was a show of bottle, but leaving the safety of the party is something else entirely.

I agree that the history of the SDP doesn't give a lot of hope to any Labour MPs thinking of breaking away. But most of them, as far as I can tell, aren't Leftists. There used to be a lot more hard Left Labour MPs, but most of those are dead now. They're fairly moderate, middle of the road social democrats, and the Momentum mob will try to get shot of them regardless. The only thing they have on their side is time, thanks to the fixed term parliament system (assuming that holds).

As for the newspapers, I've always thought they tend to follow opinion more than lead it. Even my Tory friends think Labour's self-destruction is bad for the country, and I just can't see any way it will change under the current rules. Replace Corbyn with McDonnell? Well, it might pick up a few votes from people who don't like beards.

[230TE]

Elroy Blue said:

Growing calls for Dan Jarvis to step up. Ex Para Major. Hasn't lived in the Westminster bubble. Sensible so probably won't happen.

Dream team - Dan Jarvis for Labour, and his Afghanistan comrade and friend Tom Tugendhat for the Tories. I know other countries (i.e. Greece) have tried having the Army run things and it didn't work, but it's as close to a government of national unity as we'd get.

[Johnnytheboy]

230TE said:

Elroy Blue said:

Growing calls for Dan Jarvis to step up. Ex Para Major. Hasn't lived in the Westminster bubble. Sensible so probably won't happen.

Dream team - Dan Jarvis for Labour, and his Afghanistan comrade and friend Tom Tugendhat for the Tories. I know other countries (i.e. Greece) have tried having the Army run things and it didn't work, but it's as close to a government of national unity as we'd get.

The Labour membership will not stand for Dan Jarvis.

Despite being obviously electable, he is Blairite scum and must be eradicated from the party.

Just in case it ends up, you know, electable.

[230TE]

Johnnytheboy said:

The Labour membership will not stand for Dan Jarvis.

Despite being obviously electable, he is Blairite scum and must be eradicated from the party.

Just in case it ends up, you know, electable.

I know that. But it's a nice dream all the same. What odds can I get on him crossing the floor and giving the Tories their first Barnsley MP since about 1600?

[turbobloke]

Robert Peston tweet featured in The Guardian rolling updates this evening said:

Number of Labour joiners in past week is 60,000. Bloody hell. If most joining to defend Corbyn, scary for estranged MPs (& vice versa)

[hornetrider]

turbobloke said:

Robert Peston tweet featured in The Guardian rolling updates this evening said:

Number of Labour joiners in past week is 60,000. Bloody hell. If most joining to defend Corbyn, scary for estranged MPs (& vice versa)

Fifth columnists ftw

[johnxjsc1985]

its clear the Labour Party has been taken over by the far left and a nasty bunch they are too.
This can only mean a split and a new Party

[turbobloke]

hornetrider said:

turbobloke said:

Robert Peston tweet featured in The Guardian rolling updates this evening said:

Number of Labour joiners in past week is 60,000. Bloody hell. If most joining to defend Corbyn, scary for estranged MPs (& vice versa)

Fifth columnists ftw

[anonymous-user]

He's stuffed whatever happens. Even if he goes into another leadership election and wins, where does it get him? Right back where he is now.

Talk about pyrrhic victories.

[johnxjsc1985]

talking about legacy how about RIP the Labour Party 1900-2016

[anonymous-user]

Lucas CAV said:

techiedave said:

But you get to vote again I believe !

Meanwhile in other news:

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/revealed-labo...

MP's that don't support Corbyn get "death threats" !
Yikes

Happen "our Yvette"(Cooper) can jump on that bandwagon too.
The whole thing cracks me up and annoys me at the same time. They thought after Ed Milliband it would be great to " widen the debate" to "have a conversation" to "broaden the partys appeal" etc by nominating Comrade Corbyn.
What idiots they all look now

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 30th June 06:35

Really? You want death threats pointed anyone's way? Ffs.

Get off your high horse. TBH I don't believe half of what these MP's claim. I think Cooper is a liar and lied last week. I think the whole Labour Party is a complete total joke now you can get all mightily upset if you like. Personally they can all fook off. They brought the whole mess upon themselves. Its like Liverpool in the 80's but without the scouse humour.

[AstonZagato]

Symbolica said:

He's stuffed whatever happens. Even if he goes into another leadership election and wins, where does it get him? Right back where he is now.

Talk about pyrrhic victories.

He wants the disaffected Labour MPs to split from the party and leave the infrastructure of a major political party with a bunch of far-left activists. He is playing a different game (well the people pulling his strings are). He is a puppet. He was well chosen for being thick and thick-skinned. He is perfect for the role they need.