Discussion
Johnnytheboy said:
MarshPhantom said:
From the year 2000 but you get the picture. Red means left wing government.
And that, kids, is why we're better off out!http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/684393/Italy-e...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-29/germany-j...
AstonZagato said:
Symbolica said:
He's stuffed whatever happens. Even if he goes into another leadership election and wins, where does it get him? Right back where he is now.
Talk about pyrrhic victories.
He wants the disaffected Labour MPs to split from the party and leave the infrastructure of a major political party with a bunch of far-left activists. He is playing a different game (well the people pulling his strings are). He is a puppet. He was well chosen for being thick and thick-skinned. He is perfect for the role they need.Talk about pyrrhic victories.
They had to appoint a Shadow Education Secretary today because 'Someone' has to ask questions to Nicky Morgan on Monday. I just don't see it lasting the course.
That press conference/report announcement thing yesterday was like a scene from "the thick of it" but I doubt even Armando Iannucci is talented enough to have written something so ridiculously hilarious as the pantomime we witnessed unfolding before our eyes.
He really couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
He really couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
Wills2 said:
That press conference/report announcement thing yesterday was like a scene from "the thick of it" but I doubt even Armando Iannucci is talented enough to have written something so ridiculously hilarious as the pantomime we witnessed unfolding before our eyes.
He really couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
Launching the findings of a report into antisemitism in your party and ending up with your shadow foreign secretary phoning up the Israeli ambassador to apologise for any offence caused. I did think that even Iannucci couldn't have written it He really couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure I'd class 'new labour' as left, let along left wing. It was centrist.
Because Blair new in order to win an Election he needed more centre ground Voters and he did win 3 elections.If Corbyn continues in his capacity as Stooge for the left and the Unions the next election will see a huge drop in Labour a rise in UKIP and another larger Conservative Government.
Derek Smith said:
MarshPhantom said:
From the year 2000 but you get the picture. Red means left wing government.
I'm not sure I'd class 'new labour' as left, let along left wing. It was centrist.Brown reverted to open tax and spend in a control freak manner after earlier raising over 100 stealth taxes as part of the spin (deceit) around income tax that helped to make them electable. This money was spent, and more besides - tax and spend, borrow and spend. Then the public sector was expanded creating big government with lots of expensive nonjobs. This is not centre-right or centrist behaviour, it's of the left albeit not far-left as per Corbyn.
If you were looking for nationalised industries, ho ho ho but at least they were still singing the Red Flag at conferences and calling each other comrade in the right places.
The map has horticultural overtones as it shows where attempts at cultivating the socialist money tree were taking place.
turbobloke said:
Not at all.
Brown reverted to open tax and spend in a control freak manner after earlier raising over 100 stealth taxes as part of the spin (deceit) around income tax that helped to make them electable. This money was spent, and more besides - tax and spend, borrow and spend. Then the public sector was expanded creating big government with lots of expensive nonjobs. This is not centre-right or centrist behaviour, it's of the left albeit not far-left as per Corbyn.
If you were looking for nationalised industries, ho ho ho but at least they were still singing the Red Flag at conferences and calling each other comrade in the right places.
The map has horticultural overtones as it shows where attempts at cultivating the socialist money tree were taking place.
Left wing is socialist. Saying it was so don't make it so. Just because it ain't Tory don't make it left wing.Brown reverted to open tax and spend in a control freak manner after earlier raising over 100 stealth taxes as part of the spin (deceit) around income tax that helped to make them electable. This money was spent, and more besides - tax and spend, borrow and spend. Then the public sector was expanded creating big government with lots of expensive nonjobs. This is not centre-right or centrist behaviour, it's of the left albeit not far-left as per Corbyn.
If you were looking for nationalised industries, ho ho ho but at least they were still singing the Red Flag at conferences and calling each other comrade in the right places.
The map has horticultural overtones as it shows where attempts at cultivating the socialist money tree were taking place.
Derek Smith said:
turbobloke said:
Not at all.
Brown reverted to open tax and spend in a control freak manner after earlier raising over 100 stealth taxes as part of the spin (deceit) around income tax that helped to make them electable. This money was spent, and more besides - tax and spend, borrow and spend. Then the public sector was expanded creating big government with lots of expensive nonjobs. This is not centre-right or centrist behaviour, it's of the left albeit not far-left as per Corbyn.
If you were looking for nationalised industries, ho ho ho but at least they were still singing the Red Flag at conferences and calling each other comrade in the right places.
The map has horticultural overtones as it shows where attempts at cultivating the socialist money tree were taking place.
Left wing is socialist. Brown reverted to open tax and spend in a control freak manner after earlier raising over 100 stealth taxes as part of the spin (deceit) around income tax that helped to make them electable. This money was spent, and more besides - tax and spend, borrow and spend. Then the public sector was expanded creating big government with lots of expensive nonjobs. This is not centre-right or centrist behaviour, it's of the left albeit not far-left as per Corbyn.
If you were looking for nationalised industries, ho ho ho but at least they were still singing the Red Flag at conferences and calling each other comrade in the right places.
The map has horticultural overtones as it shows where attempts at cultivating the socialist money tree were taking place.
It turns out you were looking for nationalised industries after all.
Saying it was so don't make it so, saying it wasn't likewise. Some of the tell-tale signs are given above.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Because Blair new in order to win an Election he needed more centre ground Voters and he did win 3 elections.
If Corbyn continues in his capacity as Stooge for the left and the Unions the next election will see a huge drop in Labour a rise in UKIP and another larger Conservative Government.
I can't see the UKIP getting anything from the leave vote. Their main thrust has been granted. If it fails to deliver the promises, such as, let us say, £350m per week to the NHS, then they have shot their bolt. If they went openly racist then they would get some come to them, from the right and the left parties, but I can't see them doing much. If Corbyn continues in his capacity as Stooge for the left and the Unions the next election will see a huge drop in Labour a rise in UKIP and another larger Conservative Government.
The thing with Corbyn is that he says the right things to unions. That he has no hope of delivering them (back to the UKIP) is not something that seems to bother voters a great deal.
By the time of the next election, post exit, there will be no place to hide. If living standards have fallen, and the latest ipad is up 25%, then there might well be a reaction. The fact that the tories were against exit in the main again will not convince the electorate. The floating voter is mostly concerned about the financial situation.
Blair used the centre for his own ends. It is still there. Gove/May won't go for it. Corbyn seems pathologically incapable of understanding the voting system, and there is no liberal. But that is at the moment. If a week is a long time in politics, three years or so is a lot longer. Can Corbyn last? If he can then we might see some form of new party, whether on its own or as part of another.
The UKIP has had a few spats with its leader. The labour rebels could move into bed with them and change it. Nothing is impossible, although that is unlikely I think. I doubt the LibDems would want to be outnumbered by newcomers in their own party (despite their stance of immigration) but circumstances might overtake them.
A new party? As pointed out on another thread by another poster, the circumstances of a mass movement out of labour would be vastly different to the Gang of Four SDP stance. It was very strong at one time without infrastructure.
Whilst the chances of losing their seat at the next election might worry them, the left wing of the labour party could easily, in the time to the next election, mark the mark in those constituencies where the incumbent voted for the 'wrong side' in the no confidence for Corbyn. They might well feel that the clock is ticking. Better to shrug off the labour whip now, work to the next GE, and then have a better chance of still being an MP.
It is, I think, interesting times for the labour party.
We need a strong opposition, and times when all governments are kicked out. If, a big if I know, but if some of the labour disenchanted do change sides, then we might well get a strong party on the other benches.
If we do get an election, Jezza could start whacking that 'deselect' button like mad.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jere...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jere...
I disagree strongly with Corbyn in many, many areas. Thing is, at the moment he's our greatest hope of preventing Blair escaping the consequences of his decisions. Chilcot. Blair. If Corbyn can last long enough to turn the guns on Blair then the public may see him differently. Corbyn voted against all incursions in the Middle East. Daffy sod that he is, at least his conscience is clear there. They ALL want him out of the way. He's got bottle.
W124 said:
I disagree strongly with Corbyn in many, many areas. Thing is, at the moment he's our greatest hope of preventing Blair escaping the consequences of his decisions. Chilcot. Blair. If Corbyn can last long enough to turn the guns on Blair then the public may see him differently. Corbyn voted against all incursions in the Middle East. Daffy sod that he is, at least his conscience is clear there. They ALL want him out of the way. He's got bottle.
The difficulty is that Corbyn has faced a number of open goals since he became leader, and on every occasion the ball has ended up in row z. He isn't Robin Cook.tim0409 said:
W124 said:
I disagree strongly with Corbyn in many, many areas. Thing is, at the moment he's our greatest hope of preventing Blair escaping the consequences of his decisions. Chilcot. Blair. If Corbyn can last long enough to turn the guns on Blair then the public may see him differently. Corbyn voted against all incursions in the Middle East. Daffy sod that he is, at least his conscience is clear there. They ALL want him out of the way. He's got bottle.
The difficulty is that Corbyn has faced a number of open goals since he became leader, and on every occasion the ball has ended up in row z. He isn't Robin Cook.johnxjsc1985 said:
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure I'd class 'new labour' as left, let along left wing. It was centrist.
Because Blair new in order to win an Election he needed more centre ground Voters and he did win 3 elections.If Corbyn continues in his capacity as Stooge for the left and the Unions the next election will see a huge drop in Labour a rise in UKIP and another larger Conservative Government.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Hmmm I don't know, my FB (and I know the folly of listening to what social media thinks) seems to be rammed full of people with nothing but support for Corbyn. No idea why. Its the very same people who foamed (and are still foaming) at the mouth about leaving the EU. All of them seem to be unaware that the man Corbyn is quite anti-EU and probably would have gone leave of his own volition. Quite funny really.
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