Jeremy Corbyn

[Murph7355]

Sounds to me like whoever wins this leadership race, the Tories re in power for another few terms. Let's just hope they do something with it and genuinely get us back on an even keel before Labour (or ANOther party) get their act together.

[The Don of Croy]

This morning I have invested 90 minutes in listening to JC. Why? Well, due to the overwhelming indifference of the rabidly right wing MSM (which until now I'd thought was institutionally left wing) his words rarely get airtime, but the LSE has a lecture from JC with question time after discussing his viewpoint;

http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/ch...

He seems sincere in his views. But his wish is for massive state intervention in pretty much everything - no surprise there - which, if you've never experienced it, can sound attractive if the thought moulders bombard you with the right trigger words, but in practice is pretty bloody awful if you like to have a choice.

He seems to believe that the recent upswing in Labour 'members' is the start of a grass roots nationwide movement that will carry them to election victory.

He seems a little unhinged given he's been through all this carp before, and it didn't win many elections then, either. Then there's the hypocrisy of repeatedly calling for people to be nice to one another whilst behind the scenes some militants are breaking windows and issuing rape threats. Against other party members.

[johnxjsc1985]

It is over 40 years since labour had a true left wing Government in Wilson and then Callaghan. Why is Corbyn not aware the British Public do not like far left or far right Politics and if 40 years of failure of the left are not enough to convince people of this what is. Tony Blair new this even Gordon Brown did so what is it that Corbyn thinks he has that will appeal to the same people who have rejected his policies for the last 40 years.

[Smollet]

One thing that has become increasingly apparent recently is that the militant left are more than willing to turn on their own whereas the militant right seem to confine their hostilities to those left of their policies

[P5BNij]

The Don of Croy said:

He seems a little unhinged given he's been through all this carp before, and it didn't win many elections then, either. Then there's the hypocrisy of repeatedly calling for people to be nice to one another whilst behind the scenes some militants are breaking windows and issuing rape threats. Against other party members.

Corbyn's New Old Labour are the new 'nasty' party, far more than those 'nasty Tories' ever could be. The hypocricy in the red corner is one more reason why it'll be a very long time before I even consider voting Labour again.

[Vaud]

P5BNij said:

Corbyn's New Old Labour are the new 'nasty' party, far more than those 'nasty Tories' ever could be. The hypocricy in the red corner is one more reason why it'll be a very long time before I even consider voting Labour again.

Genuine question, if there was a GE tomorrow, would you vote tactically - eg. UKIP/Lib Dem/Independent or stay at home? (I'm assuming you wouldn't vote Tory)

[cirian75]

Burwood said:

Timmy40 said:

cirian75 said:

I have just been watching part of his speech and the question that always pops into my head as always is.

How are we going to pay for all of this?

How Labour always pays for stuff, print money.

and raise taxes to 60% along with capital gains taxes, stamp duty, NI. Simples. The tax take won't actually change because the wealthy will either move abroad or dream up new ways of avoiding it.

these slogans don't work any more.

we, the general public want to hear, "we are going to do Policy A, and will do sensible thing B to pay for it"

Edited by cirian75 on Wednesday 27th July 15:50

[P5BNij]

Vaud said:

P5BNij said:

Corbyn's New Old Labour are the new 'nasty' party, far more than those 'nasty Tories' ever could be. The hypocricy in the red corner is one more reason why it'll be a very long time before I even consider voting Labour again.

Genuine question, if there was a GE tomorrow, would you vote tactically - eg. UKIP/Lib Dem/Independent or stay at home? (I'm assuming you wouldn't vote Tory)

I'd vote Tory Vaud, without a moment's hesitation, just as I did back in May last year... Labour abandonded me a long time ago. It's not easy for me to say this (as a 'working man', long time labour supporter and trade union member), but a Tory government with a majority is a chance I'd much rather take, as apposed to a Labour one which always ends in disaster. To me, Labour are dead in the water, an embarrassment, but I would never abstain from voting in a GE. As has been said many times in these threads, Labour monumentally f*ck up the country each and every time they get into power but never take any responsibility for their mistakes, and I for one have had enough of it, putting my faith in people who claim to represent me and my aspirations, but actually don't. They seem to crave the power itself above the idea of actually knowing what to do with it.

Not very erudite, but sums up my feelings right now.

Edited by P5BNij on Wednesday 27th July 12:42

[Vaud]

P5BNij said:

I'd vote Tory Vaud, just as I did back in May last year... Labour abandonded me a long time ago. It's not easy for me to say this (as a 'working man', long time labour supporter and trade union member), but a Tory government with a majority is a chance I'd much rather take, as apposed to a Labour one which always ends in disaster. To me, Labour are dead in the water, an embarrassment, but I would never abstain from voting in a GE. As has been said many times in these threads, Labour monumentally f*ck up the country each and every time they get into power but never take any responsibility for their mistakes, and I for one have had enough of it, putting my faith in people who claim to represent me and my aspirations, but actually don't. They seem to crave the power itself above the idea of actually knowing what to do with it.

Not very erudite, but sums up my feelings right now.

Fair enough and probably how many feel, especially as Tories move to the centre ground.

[JawKnee]

The Don of Croy said:

This morning I have invested 90 minutes in listening to JC. Why? Well, due to the overwhelming indifference of the rabidly right wing MSM (which until now I'd thought was institutionally left wing) his words rarely get airtime, but the LSE has a lecture from JC with question time after discussing his viewpoint;

http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/ch...

He seems sincere in his views. But his wish is for massive state intervention in pretty much everything - no surprise there - which, if you've never experienced it, can sound attractive if the thought moulders bombard you with the right trigger words, but in practice is pretty bloody awful if you like to have a choice.

He seems to believe that the recent upswing in Labour 'members' is the start of a grass roots nationwide movement that will carry them to election victory.

He seems a little unhinged given he's been through all this carp before, and it didn't win many elections then, either. Then there's the hypocrisy of repeatedly calling for people to be nice to one another whilst behind the scenes some militants are breaking windows and issuing rape threats. Against other party members.

Glad to see somebody actually listening to what he is saying and challenging him on that. Fair play.

[fatboy b]

The Don of Croy said:

This morning I have invested 90 minutes in listening to JC. Why? Well, due to the overwhelming indifference of the rabidly right wing MSM (which until now I'd thought was institutionally left wing) his words rarely get airtime, but the LSE has a lecture from JC with question time after discussing his viewpoint;

http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/ch...

He seems sincere in his views. But his wish is for massive state intervention in pretty much everything - no surprise there - which, if you've never experienced it, can sound attractive if the thought moulders bombard you with the right trigger words, but in practice is pretty bloody awful if you like to have a choice.

He seems to believe that the recent upswing in Labour 'members' is the start of a grass roots nationwide movement that will carry them to election victory.

He seems a little unhinged given he's been through all this carp before, and it didn't win many elections then, either. Then there's the hypocrisy of repeatedly calling for people to be nice to one another whilst behind the scenes some militants are breaking windows and issuing rape threats. Against other party members.

Did he mention the 2.5 million Labour voters who think Theresa May would make a better PM than him?

Edited by fatboy b on Wednesday 27th July 13:09

[Twilkes]

P5BNij said:

'working man'

I know you put it in quotes, but I always wonder what this means - the last company I worked at, a man started on the shop floor and then two or three decades later resign as Chief Executive on a salary of £1m+. At what point did he stop working?

And it's a good excuse to post this again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-li8zlTME#t=0m12...

[JawKnee]

Owen Smith says he wants to "Smash Theresa May back on her heels". lol

Which one is meant to be the extremist again?

[Timmy40]

Twilkes said:

P5BNij said:

'working man'

I know you put it in quotes, but I always wonder what this means - the last company I worked at, a man started on the shop floor and then two or three decades later resign as Chief Executive on a salary of £1m+. At what point did he stop working?

And it's a good excuse to post this again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-li8zlTME#t=0m12...

Head of Dept and above. Once you get past that level it's all golf and blow jobs.



I am joking

[P5BNij]

Timmy40 said:

Twilkes said:

P5BNij said:

'working man'

I know you put it in quotes, but I always wonder what this means - the last company I worked at, a man started on the shop floor and then two or three decades later resign as Chief Executive on a salary of £1m+. At what point did he stop working?

And it's a good excuse to post this again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-li8zlTME#t=0m12...

Head of Dept and above. Once you get past that level it's all golf and blow jobs.



I am joking

ASLEF member, voted Labour in the past, not that keen on Golf but I await the union motion to bring in blow jobs for all..!

(I put 'working man' in quotes because it still sums up what a railwayman is, despite the massive salary increases for footplate staff since privatisation)

[alock]

Twilkes said:

P5BNij said:

'working man'

I know you put it in quotes, but I always wonder what this means - the last company I worked at, a man started on the shop floor and then two or three decades later resign as Chief Executive on a salary of £1m+. At what point did he stop working?

And it's a good excuse to post this again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-li8zlTME#t=0m12...

My definition is: A 'working man' gets paid overtime if they have to work outside of contracted hours.

[Twilkes]

alock said:

My definition is: A 'working man' gets paid overtime if they have to work outside of contracted hours.

On the face of it that's actually quite a useful demarcation. Chapeau (or, as they say in the north, 'flat cap').

But behind the face of it, there's a thread running now about a medical consultant earning £375k overtime in a year.

And sole traders only earn when they work, and sometimes have to work extra hours unpaid to complete a fixed-price job.

Only slightly at a tangent, pensioners seem to make up a large and powerful voting base so could distort voting outcomes and policy decisions. So it would be interesting to see what General Election results would have been taking into account only the votes of the non-retired, if anyone knows how to find that?

[anonymous-user]

Twilkes said:

Only slightly at a tangent, pensioners seem to make up a large and powerful voting base so could distort voting outcomes and policy decisions. So it would be interesting to see what General Election results would have been taking into account only the votes of the non-retired, if anyone knows how to find that?

Why? Are you implying that pensioners, many of whom have paid taxes for years and still do, shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Why not see how it would be if we only take into account the votes of those who won't be entitled to Universal Credit Benefit or the benefits it will replace?

Having said that, I'd give up my right to vote if I can also be excused paying tax on my income and assets. It's a high price to pay for something that makes little difference.

[turbobloke]

Local radio news has just played a snippet with Owen saying he would tax the rich as it was "Labour's job to even things up".

If only they had a clue, they might even things up a bit rather than make them worse - with the country on its knees as a result. Time to look at Labour's "successes" once again. If some of the links have moved or are paywalled, the headlines and an online search should do the trick for anyone interested.

Inequality worse under Labour than under Thatcher
Gulf between rich and poor cities widens under Labour
Education gap for poorest pupils widens under Labour
Social mobility in England lags behind other countries under Labour
Gap between rich and poor has widened under Labour
Child and Pensioner poverty up under Labour
NHS productivity falls under Labour
Public sector productivity falls under Labour
Youth reoffending increased since 2000 under Labour despite increased spending

If I heard correctly, Owen also said that it was an indictment of Labour that a decent slice of Labour voters preferred Theresa May to Corbyn (?) assuming so, he needs to take a look here ^^.

[Timmy40]

REALIST123 said:

Twilkes said:

Only slightly at a tangent, pensioners seem to make up a large and powerful voting base so could distort voting outcomes and policy decisions. So it would be interesting to see what General Election results would have been taking into account only the votes of the non-retired, if anyone knows how to find that?

Why? Are you implying that pensioners, many of whom have paid taxes for years and still do, shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Why not see how it would be if we only take into account the votes of those who won't be entitled to Universal Credit Benefit or the benefits it will replace?

Having said that, I'd give up my right to vote if I can also be excused paying tax on my income and assets. It's a high price to pay for something that makes little difference.

It's been suggested. After all it was thick, biggoted, pensioners with sentimental memories of the British Empire who voted to BREXIT and stole the future from the bright, degree educated, young people ( who couldn't be arsed to vote ).