Discussion
VolvoT5 said:
Interesting that this is the second bit of research showing the Corbynistas are not completely paranoid when it comes to the "everyone is out to get us" mentality. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corby...
The mainstream media are basically giving Corbyn the same kind of treatment they give to the likes of Farage or anyone else that doesn't fit nicely into their bubble.
And even if Jeremy wins, it'll likely continue. Everyone looks after themselves.The mainstream media are basically giving Corbyn the same kind of treatment they give to the likes of Farage or anyone else that doesn't fit nicely into their bubble.
Where does he go on he stomp?
As I understand it its labour strong holds.
Why does he spend his precious time focusing on stomping on Tory or Lib dem marginal seats? He doesn't do TV so his message doesn't get to the people so to spread his message and policies he needs to go to these marginal seats heck why not even try as an example a huge Tory stronghold / he must be able to represent the entire UK as a leader if he ignores certain parts then there will be a disconnect. These areas tend to also pay the most towards the cost of the country hmm
As I understand it its labour strong holds.
Why does he spend his precious time focusing on stomping on Tory or Lib dem marginal seats? He doesn't do TV so his message doesn't get to the people so to spread his message and policies he needs to go to these marginal seats heck why not even try as an example a huge Tory stronghold / he must be able to represent the entire UK as a leader if he ignores certain parts then there will be a disconnect. These areas tend to also pay the most towards the cost of the country hmm
technodup said:
JawKnee said:
Scotland matters not a great deal as the SNP would pick Labour as coalition partners over the Cons any day.
So htf is he going to win the election then? Leaving aside any notion of coalition (although I note you're already planning for failure) Scotland had 40odd Labour seats. Now gone, and they're not coming back.Oh and don't believe a word from the SNP, they're quite happy to side with the Tories when it suits. But if a Lab/SNP coalition is on the cards what we'll get is a Tory majority. Why would England want the SNP in government?
JawKnee said:
Middle and rural England? Unlikely to vote Labour anyway unless we had another Blairite leader. But who honestly wants that?
You know he can't win just by winning the same seats as Miliband did, yes? He lost. So he has to win over Tory/SNP seats and/or hope the LibDems help him out. As for Blair the hundreds of thousands of swing voters who voted for him quite liked him. The only Labour leader to win an election (or 3) since the 70s is probably worth listening to. Unlike you. Or Corbyn.JawKnee said:
Holding sway over the biggest cities in the country is certainly a strong starting point for JC.
Holding sway in places which already vote Labour means nothing. Zero. Even Miliband could do that. Campaigning in Hull, or Liverpool or Sunderland is quite literally a waste of time. Glasgow on the other hand...or Surrey...You seem to have a belief that he's somehow going to win 'because Jezza'. He's not.
SpeedMattersNot said:
I have been having a similar discussion with a friend on FB. He's not a typical Labour voter but he is very pro-Corbyn. His reasons for liking him are quite commendable; his honesty, integrity and grass roots nature.
Sorry, wut? Is that the kind where he suddenly votes against his long-held, publicly-stated beliefs of decades; or the bit where he employs an arms-length mob of shouty thugs to intimidate his opponents in his own party? Welshbeef said:
Where does he go on he stomp?
As I understand it its labour strong holds.
Why does he spend his precious time focusing on stomping on Tory or Lib dem marginal seats? He doesn't do TV so his message doesn't get to the people so to spread his message and policies he needs to go to these marginal seats heck why not even try as an example a huge Tory stronghold / he must be able to represent the entire UK as a leader if he ignores certain parts then there will be a disconnect. These areas tend to also pay the most towards the cost of the country hmm
Because this is a leadership election so he is clearly going to campaign where there are the most members, no? As I understand it its labour strong holds.
Why does he spend his precious time focusing on stomping on Tory or Lib dem marginal seats? He doesn't do TV so his message doesn't get to the people so to spread his message and policies he needs to go to these marginal seats heck why not even try as an example a huge Tory stronghold / he must be able to represent the entire UK as a leader if he ignores certain parts then there will be a disconnect. These areas tend to also pay the most towards the cost of the country hmm
He is strongest in London which does pay the most towards the country so your point doesn't make a lot of sense. He has support from rich and poor, young and old, north and south. I think his popularity is being underestimated. After all, we all know how accurate polls can be. The only polls which matter are the ones at elections and I seem to remember Labour took council seats from UKIP very recently.
Lab/SNP coalition is on the cards.
JawKnee said:
Because this is a leadership election so he is clearly going to campaign where there are the most members, no?
He is strongest in London which does pay the most towards the country so your point doesn't make a lot of sense. He has support from rich and poor, young and old, north and south. I think his popularity is being underestimated. After all, we all know how accurate polls can be. The only polls which matter are the ones at elections and I seem to remember Labour took council seats from UKIP very recently.
Lab/SNP coalition is on the cards.
The prospect of a Lab/SNP will put off voters in droves.He is strongest in London which does pay the most towards the country so your point doesn't make a lot of sense. He has support from rich and poor, young and old, north and south. I think his popularity is being underestimated. After all, we all know how accurate polls can be. The only polls which matter are the ones at elections and I seem to remember Labour took council seats from UKIP very recently.
Lab/SNP coalition is on the cards.
The only good thing to come out of brexit that I have seen so far is that the UK will now be so preoccupied trying to minimise damage to itself and its economy from brexit, the side show politics in Scotland are really going to be starved of oxygen as the real battle to save our overall economy.
I really can't understand however how Corbyn fans fail to see how unelectable he is. He can't hold onto a shadow cabinet who all think he is useless. Is there not even the slightest recognition by Corbynistas how damaging this is? No one wants to work for him. This is really not a good look. The damage he is doing to his party now is catastrophic.
///ajd said:
The prospect of a Lab/SNP will put off voters in droves.
The only good thing to come out of brexit that I have seen so far is that the UK will now be so preoccupied trying to minimise damage to itself and its economy from brexit, the side show politics in Scotland are really going to be starved of oxygen as the real battle to save our overall economy.
I really can't understand however how Corbyn fans fail to see how unelectable he is. He can't hold onto a shadow cabinet who all think he is useless. Is there not even the slightest recognition by Corbynistas how damaging this is? No one wants to work for him. This is really not a good look. The damage he is doing to his party now is catastrophic.
LOL. Lets hope so !The only good thing to come out of brexit that I have seen so far is that the UK will now be so preoccupied trying to minimise damage to itself and its economy from brexit, the side show politics in Scotland are really going to be starved of oxygen as the real battle to save our overall economy.
I really can't understand however how Corbyn fans fail to see how unelectable he is. He can't hold onto a shadow cabinet who all think he is useless. Is there not even the slightest recognition by Corbynistas how damaging this is? No one wants to work for him. This is really not a good look. The damage he is doing to his party now is catastrophic.
JawKnee said:
Just have to put up with this shower for another few years.
Ah, that'll be the current 'shower' who are busy getting us out of the unmitigated pile of sh*t left behind by the previous Labour shower won't it?Genuine question JawKnee - how old are you/ were you born after 1979? Did you live through the Winter of discontent and understand how and why it came about? History tells us that every single Labour government f
ks the country up, and then some. P5BNij said:
Ah, that'll be the current 'shower' who are busy getting us out of the unmitigated pile of sh*t left behind by the previous Labour shower won't it?
Genuine question JawKnee - how old are you/ were you born after 1979? Did you live through the Winter of discontent and understand how and why it came about? History tells us that every single Labour government fks the country up, and then some.
the last truly labour/socialist Gov was 40 years ago if he cant work out why we will never have another one then what's the point in educating him. They will attract the activists to their membership but fortunately for the public who are far more balanced in their views they will be short by about 5 million votes in the next election.Genuine question JawKnee - how old are you/ were you born after 1979? Did you live through the Winter of discontent and understand how and why it came about? History tells us that every single Labour government f
ks the country up, and then some. P5BNij said:
JawKnee said:
Just have to put up with this shower for another few years.
Ah, that'll be the current 'shower' who are busy getting us out of the unmitigated pile of sh*t left behind by the previous Labour shower won't it?Genuine question JawKnee - how old are you/ were you born after 1979? Did you live through the Winter of discontent and understand how and why it came about? History tells us that every single Labour government f
ks the country up, and then some. JawKnee said:
Because this is a leadership election so he is clearly going to campaign where there are the most members, no?
And where's he been for the last year?JawKnee said:
He is strongest in London which does pay the most towards the country so your point doesn't make a lot of sense. He has support from rich and poor, young and old, north and south. I think his popularity is being underestimated. After all, we all know how accurate polls can be.
He's strongest in London because London has the highest concentration of middle class hand wringers, mixed in with huge amounts of working class and poverty. He's not going to win the actually rich seats, Kensington & Chelsea etc.Where is his support from the rich? Where is his support in Scotland? Where is his support in the huge swathe of rural Toryshire?
He's not even got the support of the Guardian ffs. The Guardian.
JawKnee said:
Lab/SNP coalition is on the cards.
So he's not really that popular at all then? David Cameron wasn't a massively notable or popular PM, but he still won a majority. Why can't Corbyn?What is much more likely to happen is May does a solid but unspectacular job. She'll have a record of competence, she's a woman and she'll be up against a geriatric rabble rouser with nothing to offer except 'tax the rich'. And as we know, the UK doesn't like left wing governments, so draw your own conclusions...
That's if Labour even makes it to the GE in one piece.
///ajd said:
I really can't understand however how Corbyn fans fail to see how unelectable he is. He can't hold onto a shadow cabinet who all think he is useless. Is there not even the slightest recognition by Corbynistas how damaging this is? No one wants to work for him. This is really not a good look. The damage he is doing to his party now is catastrophic.
The greatest amount of damage to the party has come from the PLP opposed to Corbyn. Barely a week goes by without leaks to the press or snidey articles in the papers from these MPs. The damage to public image this infighting causes does no good for anybody. They could have tried properly, at least for a few months to get on the same side and see what happens but they seem totally incapable. So they mount a leadership challenge and the best candidate they are willing to put forward is Owen Smith!?!?! An almost certain loser against JC. Are they being serious about this or not? The PLP rebels need to put up or shut up. Once all this is over and Corbyn wins again, the MPs will need to back him or face deselection. The membership wont stand for anything otherwise. Gradually there will be greater unity within the party and things will start to look a lot better for 2020.
P5BNij said:
JawKnee said:
Just have to put up with this shower for another few years.
Ah, that'll be the current 'shower' who are busy getting us out of the unmitigated pile of sh*t left behind by the previous Labour shower won't it? JawKnee said:
///ajd said:
I really can't understand however how Corbyn fans fail to see how unelectable he is. He can't hold onto a shadow cabinet who all think he is useless. Is there not even the slightest recognition by Corbynistas how damaging this is? No one wants to work for him. This is really not a good look. The damage he is doing to his party now is catastrophic.
The greatest amount of damage to the party has come from the PLP opposed to Corbyn. Barely a week goes by without leaks to the press or snidey articles in the papers from these MPs. The damage to public image this infighting causes does no good for anybody. They could have tried properly, at least for a few months to get on the same side and see what happens but they seem totally incapable. So they mount a leadership challenge and the best candidate they are willing to put forward is Owen Smith!?!?! An almost certain loser against JC. Are they being serious about this or not? The PLP rebels need to put up or shut up. Once all this is over and Corbyn wins again, the MPs will need to back him or face deselection. The membership wont stand for anything otherwise. Gradually there will be greater unity within the party and things will start to look a lot better for 2020.
P5BNij said:
JawKnee said:
Just have to put up with this shower for another few years.
Ah, that'll be the current 'shower' who are busy getting us out of the unmitigated pile of sh*t left behind by the previous Labour shower won't it? 5 years hogtied to the useless LibDims but still the UK employment rate hit the highest level since records began before the May 2015 election.
Average wages were also outpacing inflation by that time.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/18/u...
The UK deficit reduction target for 2014-15 had been hit.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5ad0ff66-e994-11e4-a687-...
Take a peek (below) at what failure looks like, I posted this catalogue of Labour ineptitude recently but you must have missed it.
Inequality worse under Labour than under Thatcher
Gulf between rich and poor cities widens under Labour
Education gap for poorest pupils widens under Labour
Social mobility in England lags behind other countries under Labour
Gap between rich and poor has widened under Labour
Child and Pensioner poverty up under Labour
NHS productivity falls under Labour
Public sector productivity falls under Labour
Youth reoffending increased since 2000 under Labour despite increased spending
If a link has moved it should be easy to find from the headline.
I will be honest I haven't read most of this thread mainly because the chance of Jeremy Corbyn ever being PM are about level with my chances of being picked as the next Pope. I had hoped that all the old fashioned socialists were dying off but sadly it seems not. The following may have already been shared, and if so I apologise, but this, to me, is why socialism will ultimately always fail.
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
Maybe not the kind of wakeup call that Labour supporters need:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/people-are-furi...
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/people-are-furi...
JawKnee said:
The greatest amount of damage to the party has come from the PLP opposed to Corbyn. Barely a week goes by without leaks to the press or snidey articles in the papers from these MPs. The damage to public image this infighting causes does no good for anybody. They could have tried properly, at least for a few months to get on the same side and see what happens but they seem totally incapable. So they mount a leadership challenge and the best candidate they are willing to put forward is Owen Smith!?!?! An almost certain loser against JC. Are they being serious about this or not? The PLP rebels need to put up or shut up.
What about the non-Blairite shadow cabinet members who said they were undermined by Corbyn?Having a reshuffle the same day as a long planned policy announcement. Announcing a completely different policy without consulting the shadow cabinet member. Promising apologies but never actually meeting the person. Watering down Remain campaign statements and taking a holiday in the middle of the campaign. Appointing someone by mistake then taking several weeks to get round to telling them.
Is there a single example anywhere of Corbyn being an effective leader?
Twilkes said:
Maybe not the kind of wakeup call that Labour supporters need:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/people-are-furi...
People will be "furious" at many things.https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/people-are-furi...
Reading some of those it looks like the professionally "upset at the sun coming up inn the morning brigade". Turn the phone off when going to bed or leave it out the bedroom.
JawKnee said:
///ajd said:
I really can't understand however how Corbyn fans fail to see how unelectable he is. He can't hold onto a shadow cabinet who all think he is useless. Is there not even the slightest recognition by Corbynistas how damaging this is? No one wants to work for him. This is really not a good look. The damage he is doing to his party now is catastrophic.
The greatest amount of damage to the party has come from the PLP opposed to Corbyn. Barely a week goes by without leaks to the press or snidey articles in the papers from these MPs. The damage to public image this infighting causes does no good for anybody. They could have tried properly, at least for a few months to get on the same side and see what happens but they seem totally incapable. So they mount a leadership challenge and the best candidate they are willing to put forward is Owen Smith!?!?! An almost certain loser against JC. Are they being serious about this or not? The PLP rebels need to put up or shut up. Once all this is over and Corbyn wins again, the MPs will need to back him or face deselection. The membership wont stand for anything otherwise. Gradually there will be greater unity within the party and things will start to look a lot better for 2020.
P5BNij said:
JawKnee said:
Just have to put up with this shower for another few years.
Ah, that'll be the current 'shower' who are busy getting us out of the unmitigated pile of sh*t left behind by the previous Labour shower won't it? The only real failure is a Labour government, proven by history. Those blinkers of yours must be chaffing a bit by now.
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