Jeremy Corbyn

[Kermit power]

steveT350C said:

William Hill is taking bets on when Labour will next win a general election, and 2031 or later is current favourite at 7/4.

Anyone care to work out the annual rate of return, even if you did win, at those odds for a 15 year bet?

[paulrockliffe]

el stovey said:

Corbyn's has already been an interim leader. His party is in chaos and their popularity is in free fall. How is anyone going to come next? He won't resign even when all the parliamentary labour party want him out. He's a car crash and all that will follow will be a pile of rubble.

Labour are going to be in this mess while the unions are selecting Brownite leaders. Gordon replacing Tony then Ed beating David , now long time useless Ex back bencher Corbyn. Labour will be in the wilderness and infighting now for years.

The answer is of course to pick someone electable like Dan Jarvis (if he'd do it) or Chuka Umunna or Angela Eagle or even Caroline Fflint. But no, Labour will be slave to the students and unions and keep picking these unelectable leaders and it will be totally their own fault.

Only problem there is that none of those could win an election either. It's a busted flush, time for those that don't support Corbyn to find some principles and move on.

[Kermit power]

RedTrident said:

I don't buy that. The party before Corbyn became leader was proven to be unelectable. I see Corbyn as an interim leader and whoever comes next will actually lead a party that is a genuine electable opposition. What we had at the last election was a Labour Party that was just Tory lite.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing these 172 MPs that tried to oust Corbyn get deselected. It doesn't matter what Corbyn says, the left of the party are going to go after MPs that all too often were placed in safe constituencies by head office. It'll be the English equivalent of the bit of the French Revolution with the guillotine and those citizen court things.

It would be more realistic to say that at the last four general elections, at least, the Tories have been Labour lite, just as the actual Labour party have been.

[FGB]

Kermit power said:

RedTrident said:

I don't buy that. The party before Corbyn became leader was proven to be unelectable. I see Corbyn as an interim leader and whoever comes next will actually lead a party that is a genuine electable opposition. What we had at the last election was a Labour Party that was just Tory lite.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing these 172 MPs that tried to oust Corbyn get deselected. It doesn't matter what Corbyn says, the left of the party are going to go after MPs that all too often were placed in safe constituencies by head office. It'll be the English equivalent of the bit of the French Revolution with the guillotine and those citizen court things.

It would be more realistic to say that at the last four general elections, at least, the Tories have been Labour lite, just as the actual Labour party have been.

I'd say the we're both more like Tory lite.

With labour taking a swerve to the left it is leaving the door open for some real Tory policies.

If nothing else the next election should have some real fireworks.

[powerstroke]

Kermit power said:

RedTrident said:

I don't buy that. The party before Corbyn became leader was proven to be unelectable. I see Corbyn as an interim leader and whoever comes next will actually lead a party that is a genuine electable opposition. What we had at the last election was a Labour Party that was just Tory lite.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing these 172 MPs that tried to oust Corbyn get deselected. It doesn't matter what Corbyn says, the left of the party are going to go after MPs that all too often were placed in safe constituencies by head office. It'll be the English equivalent of the bit of the French Revolution with the guillotine and those citizen court things.

It would be more realistic to say that at the last four general elections, at least, the Tories have been Labour lite, just as the actual Labour party have been.

This and at long last we have some blue water between parties ...

[motco]

powerstroke said:

This and at long last we have some blue water between parties ...

It's more like red after all the bloodletting - multus sanguis fluit!

[crankedup]

FGB said:

Kermit power said:

RedTrident said:

I don't buy that. The party before Corbyn became leader was proven to be unelectable. I see Corbyn as an interim leader and whoever comes next will actually lead a party that is a genuine electable opposition. What we had at the last election was a Labour Party that was just Tory lite.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing these 172 MPs that tried to oust Corbyn get deselected. It doesn't matter what Corbyn says, the left of the party are going to go after MPs that all too often were placed in safe constituencies by head office. It'll be the English equivalent of the bit of the French Revolution with the guillotine and those citizen court things.

It would be more realistic to say that at the last four general elections, at least, the Tories have been Labour lite, just as the actual Labour party have been.

I'd say the we're both more like Tory lite.

With labour taking a swerve to the left it is leaving the door open for some real Tory policies.

If nothing else the next election should have some real fireworks.

'some real Tory policies' what do you mean by this?

[technodup]

crankedup said:

'some real Tory policies' what do you mean by this?

Sort out the NHS according to best outcomes, not ideology
Cut and simplify taxes
Encourage and incentivise business investment
Encourage excellence in education via grammar schools
Reduce the numbers going to university for pointless degrees
Control immigration to increase wages
'Encourage' the feckless to work
Disband Holyrood
'Deal with' transport unions

That's enough to be getting on with for now.

[steveT350C]

[FGB]

crankedup said:

FGB said:

Kermit power said:

RedTrident said:

I don't buy that. The party before Corbyn became leader was proven to be unelectable. I see Corbyn as an interim leader and whoever comes next will actually lead a party that is a genuine electable opposition. What we had at the last election was a Labour Party that was just Tory lite.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing these 172 MPs that tried to oust Corbyn get deselected. It doesn't matter what Corbyn says, the left of the party are going to go after MPs that all too often were placed in safe constituencies by head office. It'll be the English equivalent of the bit of the French Revolution with the guillotine and those citizen court things.

It would be more realistic to say that at the last four general elections, at least, the Tories have been Labour lite, just as the actual Labour party have been.

I'd say the we're both more like Tory lite.

With labour taking a swerve to the left it is leaving the door open for some real Tory policies.

If nothing else the next election should have some real fireworks.

'some real Tory policies' what do you mean by this?

fking poor people!

[basherX]

FGB said:

fking poor people!

Not punishing aspiration

[FGB]

basherX said:

FGB said:

fking poor people!

Not punishing aspiration

More eloquent than my version. But same thing .

[cloggy]

FGB said:

fking poor people!

The ones on the social to fecking lazy to work?

[Oilchange]

What, by taking them out of income tax completely?

FGB said:

fking poor people!

[Register1]

technodup said:

crankedup said:

'some real Tory policies' what do you mean by this?

Sort out the NHS according to best outcomes, not ideology
Cut and simplify taxes
Encourage and incentive business investment
Encourage excellence in education via grammar schools
Reduce the numbers going to university for pointless degrees
Control immigration to increase wages
'Encourage' the feckless to work
Disband Holyrood
'Deal with' transport unions

That's enough to be getting on with for now.

Couldn't agree more.
Perhaps not in that order, but then I guess you didn't put them in any specific order.

But yes,

Lets get the job done.

[Halb]

Cobnapint said:

I was expecting something like 75/25 Corbyn.

The actual result shows that Corby isn't as well liked as he and his right-on supporters thing he is.

He increased his share.

[VolvoT5]

technodup said:

crankedup said:

'some real Tory policies' what do you mean by this?

Sort out the NHS according to best outcomes, not ideology
Cut and simplify taxes
Encourage and incentivise business investment
Encourage excellence in education via grammar schools
Reduce the numbers going to university for pointless degrees
Control immigration to increase wages
'Encourage' the feckless to work
Disband Holyrood
'Deal with' transport unions

That's enough to be getting on with for now.

Seems a bit contradictory to me.
Reduce taxes but improve healthcare (which requires more spending regardless of ideology behind the system). How does that work? I assume the usual 'efficiency savings' which are the right's version of the left's magic money tree.

Increase the number of grammar schools (hotly debated as to whether this 'encourages excellence' anyway) while cutting the number of Uni places available for those that then graduate from these schools. Universities are one of the things we generally do quite well at as a country and our workforce is trying to compete with other countries that have an increasingly well educated population. Doesn't seem desirable or logical to me.

Encourage business investment - yes I'm sure a hard Brexit will do just that. Immigration and low wages are a big issue but economic growth and demographic issues kind of mean no party is ever going to deliver on that.

Encourage the feckless to work - I mean define "feckless" which is a pretty horrible term really. Is all 1.6 million unemployed who are enjoying their life of luxury on £70 JSA a week? The one million food bank users last year and perhaps the disabled too? How about poorly paid people topping up with tax credits? Statistically there will be a hell of a lot more of them if youngsters are stopped from going to Uni for 3-4 years...

IMO your manifesto just reads like "screw everybody who isn't me or my own"

[Guybrush]

FGB said:

crankedup said:

FGB said:

Kermit power said:

RedTrident said:

I don't buy that. The party before Corbyn became leader was proven to be unelectable. I see Corbyn as an interim leader and whoever comes next will actually lead a party that is a genuine electable opposition. What we had at the last election was a Labour Party that was just Tory lite.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing these 172 MPs that tried to oust Corbyn get deselected. It doesn't matter what Corbyn says, the left of the party are going to go after MPs that all too often were placed in safe constituencies by head office. It'll be the English equivalent of the bit of the French Revolution with the guillotine and those citizen court things.

It would be more realistic to say that at the last four general elections, at least, the Tories have been Labour lite, just as the actual Labour party have been.

I'd say the we're both more like Tory lite.

With labour taking a swerve to the left it is leaving the door open for some real Tory policies.

If nothing else the next election should have some real fireworks.

'some real Tory policies' what do you mean by this?

fking poor people!

Not wrecking the economy. 'Poor' people do so well then.

[FGB]

VolvoT5 said:

IMO your manifesto just reads like "screw everybody who isn't me or my own"

A proper Tory manifesto

[Kermit power]

technodup said:

crankedup said:

'some real Tory policies' what do you mean by this?

Sort out the NHS according to best outcomes, not ideology
Cut and simplify taxes
Encourage and incentivise business investment
Encourage excellence in education via grammar schools
Reduce the numbers going to university for pointless degrees
Control immigration to increase wages
'Encourage' the feckless to work
Disband Holyrood
'Deal with' transport unions

That's enough to be getting on with for now.

Why in God's name would you want to do that??????

Cut immigrants going into manufacturing jobs = possibly increase wages in the very short term, followed by losing jobs to cheaper manufacturers overseas. This might work in France where they really do by French, but here, we'll always buy cheapest outside luxury goods, and if that means fking over British manufacturers, so be it.

Cut immigrants going into the service industry = possibly increase wages in the short term, but the increase, plus employer costs, just get passed on to the public anyway, and this will often disproportionately impact those whose wages you want to increase in the first place.

Above all, though, cut immigrants in general, in an economy where we've got as near as most economists think it's possible to get to full employment, and you'll just be restricting growth in the economy because there won't be workers available to fill vacancies.

Why not just say nobody (whether immigrant or otherwise) can claim any benefits - unemployment benefits, tax credits, etc, etc - until they've contributed into the system for at least 2 years, then let the market sort out the rest?