Discussion
VolvoT5 said:
technodup said:
crankedup said:
'some real Tory policies' what do you mean by this?
Sort out the NHS according to best outcomes, not ideologyCut and simplify taxes
Encourage and incentivise business investment
Encourage excellence in education via grammar schools
Reduce the numbers going to university for pointless degrees
Control immigration to increase wages
'Encourage' the feckless to work
Disband Holyrood
'Deal with' transport unions
That's enough to be getting on with for now.
Reduce taxes but improve healthcare (which requires more spending regardless of ideology behind the system). How does that work? I assume the usual 'efficiency savings' which are the right's version of the left's magic money tree.
Increase the number of grammar schools (hotly debated as to whether this 'encourages excellence' anyway) while cutting the number of Uni places available for those that then graduate from these schools. Universities are one of the things we generally do quite well at as a country and our workforce is trying to compete with other countries that have an increasingly well educated population. Doesn't seem desirable or logical to me.
Encourage business investment - yes I'm sure a hard Brexit will do just that. Immigration and low wages are a big issue but economic growth and demographic issues kind of mean no party is ever going to deliver on that.
Encourage the feckless to work - I mean define "feckless" which is a pretty horrible term really. Is all 1.6 million unemployed who are enjoying their life of luxury on £70 JSA a week? The one million food bank users last year and perhaps the disabled too? How about poorly paid people topping up with tax credits? Statistically there will be a hell of a lot more of them if youngsters are stopped from going to Uni for 3-4 years...
IMO your manifesto just reads like "screw everybody who isn't me or my own"
My father in law has not worked a single day in the 30 years I've known him. He lives 3 streets from me in a nice HA 3 bed terraced house with off street parking and a garage. Kitchen and bathroom have been replaced recently, and the windows were all done a few years ago. I've never seen him go hungry, and he had a reasonably new car on the drive. If you choose it as a career, sitting on your arse can pay quite well. Its those that suddenly find their circumstances change who are hit the hardest.
Therer is no benefit to having half of all teenagers in education if its not leading anywhere. I left school at 16, and by 21 was starting to get promoted and was looking at buying my first house. I had been a tax payer for 5 years, had been learning a profession, and had been saving for a house.
At the same age my kids will have paid no taxes, accumulated 30k worth of debt just to get a qualification that only keeps them up with 50% of their peers.
When the left attack business they always point to shady characters like Philip Green and huge tax dodgers like Google and Starbucks. When the right attack social security they always point to the some anecdotal example of someone they know living a life of luxury by suckling at the teat of the taxpayer... It is all a bit tedious.
They way I see it is most business people are not hugely corrupt and most businesses are SMEs that pay tax.... and most people have a bit of self respect and if they are claiming social security it isn't just because they are 'feckless'.
Problem is Jezza would like to bring all business under state control and with little effective opposition the Tories at drifting off to the other extreme of wanting to smash up all public provision. Corbyn is accused of wanting to take us back to the 70s but it seems May wants to go even further...
They way I see it is most business people are not hugely corrupt and most businesses are SMEs that pay tax.... and most people have a bit of self respect and if they are claiming social security it isn't just because they are 'feckless'.
Problem is Jezza would like to bring all business under state control and with little effective opposition the Tories at drifting off to the other extreme of wanting to smash up all public provision. Corbyn is accused of wanting to take us back to the 70s but it seems May wants to go even further...
VolvoT5 said:
technodup said:
crankedup said:
'some real Tory policies' what do you mean by this?
Sort out the NHS according to best outcomes, not ideologyCut and simplify taxes
Encourage and incentivise business investment
Encourage excellence in education via grammar schools
Reduce the numbers going to university for pointless degrees
Control immigration to increase wages
'Encourage' the feckless to work
Disband Holyrood
'Deal with' transport unions
That's enough to be getting on with for now.
Reduce taxes but improve healthcare (which requires more spending regardless of ideology behind the system). How does that work? I assume the usual 'efficiency savings' which are the right's version of the left's magic money tree.
Increase the number of grammar schools (hotly debated as to whether this 'encourages excellence' anyway) while cutting the number of Uni places available for those that then graduate from these schools. Universities are one of the things we generally do quite well at as a country and our workforce is trying to compete with other countries that have an increasingly well educated population. Doesn't seem desirable or logical to me.
Encourage business investment - yes I'm sure a hard Brexit will do just that. Immigration and low wages are a big issue but economic growth and demographic issues kind of mean no party is ever going to deliver on that.
Encourage the feckless to work - I mean define "feckless" which is a pretty horrible term really. Is all 1.6 million unemployed who are enjoying their life of luxury on £70 JSA a week? The one million food bank users last year and perhaps the disabled too? How about poorly paid people topping up with tax credits? Statistically there will be a hell of a lot more of them if youngsters are stopped from going to Uni for 3-4 years...
IMO your manifesto just reads like "screw everybody who isn't me or my own"
Education : The current system has dramatically reduced the difference in lifetime earnings between graduates and non graduates so, eventually, the penny will drop with the young generations coming through. This appears to be because there are now a lot of pretty useless degrees. The country is very short of engineers of all colours so why not identify those graduates that are required for the country to thrive and zero their course fees and provide them with grants - government funded as an investment. The rest can still follow their chosen degree courses but they will have to pay for them. We might just then regenerate the science and maths teachers we desperately need in our schools. If that also means grammar schools for the more able then fine.
Business investment - you need low corporate taxation rates and a good relevant workforce (see above). High taxation rates result in the usual tax avoidance schemes we have seen exposed recently. Close the loopholes in the vein attempt to extract more tax and the multinationals move elsewhere and the tax take goes down as well as the employment, income tax and indirect spending tax that goes with them.
Feckless: Difficult one as the expectation of life on benefits etc. and how to get housed and a decent level of government handouts is firmly 'out of the bag' and almost impossible now to get back in. Playing the system is now very common place. Capping (as the Tories have attempted to do) is a start but only works in the long run if inflation erodes the feckless' benefits back to a more acceptable 'safety net' level rather than the ridiculous 'relative poverty' levels now favoured by some.
Immigration : This, together with Tax Credits', is a major downward pressure on low wages. Both need sorting and quickly.
Back to JC - I have no idea what his policies are for dealing with any of the above apart form soak the rich (has never worked in the past) and nationalise everything (has never worked in the past). JC has absolutely nothing new or innovative apart from harking back to the distant past. I nearly spat my coffee out this morning when, in his 'victory speech ' he referred to the Tories taking the country backwards!
VolvoT5 said:
When the left attack business they always point to shady characters like Philip Green and huge tax dodgers like Google and Starbucks. When the right attack social security they always point to the some anecdotal example of someone they know living a life of luxury by suckling at the teat of the taxpayer... It is all a bit tedious.
They way I see it is most business people are not hugely corrupt and most businesses are SMEs that pay tax.... and most people have a bit of self respect and if they are claiming social security it isn't just because they are 'feckless'.
Problem is Jezza would like to bring all business under state control and with little effective opposition the Tories at drifting off to the other extreme of wanting to smash up all public provision. Corbyn is accused of wanting to take us back to the 70s but it seems May wants to go even further...
Please explain how the Tories are wanting to 'smash up all public provision'?They way I see it is most business people are not hugely corrupt and most businesses are SMEs that pay tax.... and most people have a bit of self respect and if they are claiming social security it isn't just because they are 'feckless'.
Problem is Jezza would like to bring all business under state control and with little effective opposition the Tories at drifting off to the other extreme of wanting to smash up all public provision. Corbyn is accused of wanting to take us back to the 70s but it seems May wants to go even further...
98elise said:
Therer is no benefit to having half of all teenagers in education if its not leading anywhere. I left school at 16, and by 21 was starting to get promoted and was looking at buying my first house. I had been a tax payer for 5 years, had been learning a profession, and had been saving for a house.
At the same age my kids will have paid no taxes, accumulated 30k worth of debt just to get a qualification that only keeps them up with 50% of their peers.
I left school at 16 onto maggies YTS, by 18 was taken on full time and bought a 3 bed terrace when I was 19.At the same age my kids will have paid no taxes, accumulated 30k worth of debt just to get a qualification that only keeps them up with 50% of their peers.
My kids are only to uni if they do a proper degree that leads directly to a professional job, rather than being a burger flipper with a 30k debt.
Nice flat rate of tax, at a level that most (yes some knobs will always try to avoid) will happily pay, £millions saved from a less 'attractive' benefits offering where you away not rewarded for sitting on their lard arses all day and I see things getting better.
Once you get past political correctness and those that support, incorrectly, a system that reward laziness you have some very simple solutions to societal issues.
Once you get past political correctness and those that support, incorrectly, a system that reward laziness you have some very simple solutions to societal issues.
garyhun said:
Nice flat rate of tax, at a level that most (yes some knobs will always try to avoid) will happily pay, £millions saved from a less 'attractive' benefits offering where you away not rewarded for sitting on their lard arses all day and I see things getting better.
Once you get past political correctness and those that support, incorrectly, a system that reward laziness you have some very simple solutions to societal issues.
I'm sure its flawed but i always like the idea of zero direct taxation and, say, a 40% Vat rate. all the black market is caught.Once you get past political correctness and those that support, incorrectly, a system that reward laziness you have some very simple solutions to societal issues.
Smollet said:
craigjm said:
I think if I was Theresa May I would call an election this afternoon
Unfortunately the criteria of the fixed term parliament dictates she can't unless 2/3 of the house vote for it or there is a succession of votes of no confidence in the government. The days of calling a GE just because it suits are long gone. I don't think they will, though. I think May will go to the polls in 2020.
Kermit power said:
steveT350C said:
William Hill is taking bets on when Labour will next win a general election, and 2031 or later is current favourite at 7/4.
Anyone care to work out the annual rate of return, even if you did win, at those odds for a 15 year bet?
el stovey said:
Corbyn's has already been an interim leader. His party is in chaos and their popularity is in free fall. How is anyone going to come next? He won't resign even when all the parliamentary labour party want him out. He's a car crash and all that will follow will be a pile of rubble.
Labour are going to be in this mess while the unions are selecting Brownite leaders. Gordon replacing Tony then Ed beating David , now long time useless Ex back bencher Corbyn. Labour will be in the wilderness and infighting now for years.
The answer is of course to pick someone electable like Dan Jarvis (if he'd do it) or Chuka Umunna or Angela Eagle or even Caroline Fflint. But no, Labour will be slave to the students and unions and keep picking these unelectable leaders and it will be totally their own fault.
Chuka Umunna - possibly electable stretching a pointand before you say it its not because he is black innit. Its because of his past changing of his mind-. Long standing rumours suggest a closetness about something. It was certainly enough to stop him from standing or something. Point is the press will pick up on it and he will be put through the wringer.Labour are going to be in this mess while the unions are selecting Brownite leaders. Gordon replacing Tony then Ed beating David , now long time useless Ex back bencher Corbyn. Labour will be in the wilderness and infighting now for years.
The answer is of course to pick someone electable like Dan Jarvis (if he'd do it) or Chuka Umunna or Angela Eagle or even Caroline Fflint. But no, Labour will be slave to the students and unions and keep picking these unelectable leaders and it will be totally their own fault.
Angela Eagle - a total wreck of a woman. Seems like she would wet herself at the announcement of her victory or loss, she wont inspire anyone and will be ripped apart.
Caroline Flint - seems presentable and quite long a standing cant say anything much about her
Dan Jarvis - I genuinely had to look him up
That's part of the problem Labour don't seem to have any well known faces in their ranks. And them that are tainted by their past actions. Harriet Harman unlikeable and patronising. Yvette Cooper moaning self imnportant person whom personally I think lied recently about her twitter account. Andy Burnham - decent enough bloke but ...............
I really think they are out in the wilderness for years and years.
VolvoT5 said:
Reduce taxes but improve healthcare (which requires more spending regardless of ideology behind the system). How does that work?
Probably by accepting the NHS cannot do everything, and can't continue to keep up with the ever increasing number and cost of drugs/treatments. Do less, and encourage private health insurance.VolvoT5 said:
Increase the number of grammar schools (hotly debated as to whether this 'encourages excellence' anyway) while cutting the number of Uni places available for those that then graduate from these schools. Universities are one of the things we generally do quite well at as a country and our workforce is trying to compete with other countries that have an increasingly well educated population. Doesn't seem desirable or logical to me.
We have FAR too many people at university, who end up with loads of debt, no jobs and a chip on their shoulder. Only the best should be there, the rest should be learning trades, getting jobs or starting businesses.VolvoT5 said:
Encourage business investment - yes I'm sure a hard Brexit will do just that. Immigration and low wages are a big issue but economic growth and demographic issues kind of mean no party is ever going to deliver on that.
We'll just give up on it then?VolvoT5 said:
Encourage the feckless to work - I mean define "feckless" which is a pretty horrible term really. Is all 1.6 million unemployed who are enjoying their life of luxury on £70 JSA a week? The one million food bank users last year
There are a lot of people who choose to live the benefits life. Many of them topping up via other means. I know a guy who gets a job around this time to pay for his children's Xmas. The rest of the year? Not interested. Whether they're feckless or simply unemployed we should do more to get/force them into work before we let increasing numbers of immigrants in to do the jobs they could and should be doing.And as for food banks, if it's offered people will take it. If we really wanted to help we'd give these people lessons on household budgeting, cooking etc. Teach a man to fish etc.
Pretty much the end for democracy as has been accepted for several generations, imho.
Whilst Corbyn is unelectable on a UK wide basis, one wonders as to the extent of the delusion his fan-base has for ever believing that he could ever be PM and what measures may be considered acceptable, by them, when policies proposed by Corbyn will never be adopted by the UK electorate as a whole.
Whilst Corbyn is unelectable on a UK wide basis, one wonders as to the extent of the delusion his fan-base has for ever believing that he could ever be PM and what measures may be considered acceptable, by them, when policies proposed by Corbyn will never be adopted by the UK electorate as a whole.
Ali G said:
Pretty much the end for democracy as has been accepted for several generations, imho.
Whilst Corbyn is unelectable on a UK wide basis, one wonders as to the extent of the delusion his fan-base has for ever believing that he could ever be PM and what measures may be considered acceptable, by them, when policies proposed by Corbyn will never be adopted by the UK electorate as a whole.
Lots of people believe in "Energy from crystals", hell it keeps Glastonbury going !......do not be surprised that idiots need either an evil/twit leader to follow.Whilst Corbyn is unelectable on a UK wide basis, one wonders as to the extent of the delusion his fan-base has for ever believing that he could ever be PM and what measures may be considered acceptable, by them, when policies proposed by Corbyn will never be adopted by the UK electorate as a whole.
(Corbyn is at the twit end of idiot)
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