Discussion
Halb said:
Smollet said:
How many LibDems lurk there?
Conservative Party 255 Labour Party 209
Crossbencher 177
Liberal Democrats 105
Lords Spiritual 26
Democratic Unionist Party 3
Non-affiliated 22
UK Independence Party 3
Plaid Cymru 2
Ulster Unionist Party 2
Independent Labour 2
Green Party 1
Independent Liberal Democrat 1
Independent Ulster Unionist 1
Garvin said:
It's not about benefit fraud though (although it shouldn't be discounted), it's about the current 'scheme' where the 'feckless' are legitimately permitted to lead the 'life of riley' at the expense of everyone else. That costs a fair bit more than £2Bn.
on top of the benefits they take I know several who also have "supplementary" income.Garvin said:
It's not about benefit fraud though (although it shouldn't be discounted), it's about the current 'scheme' where the 'feckless' are legitimately permitted to lead the 'life of riley' at the expense of everyone else. That costs a fair bit more than £2Bn.
Not really. They're so unproductive that I suspect it would cost more to employ them than to leave them be. Even if they were to work, they'd still be net recipients of state aid. And they'd still be
s.Joey Ramone said:
Garvin said:
It's not about benefit fraud though (although it shouldn't be discounted), it's about the current 'scheme' where the 'feckless' are legitimately permitted to lead the 'life of riley' at the expense of everyone else. That costs a fair bit more than £2Bn.
Not really. They're so unproductive that I suspect it would cost more to employ them than to leave them be. Even if they were to work, they'd still be net recipients of state aid. And they'd still be
s.Joey Ramone said:
I'm glad you have, because if you add all this financial abuse of the system up, it still amounts to pretty much fk all in the wider scheme of things. It's estimated that benefit fraud costs about £2bn a year. Which is about 6 days running costs for the NHS.
There are bigger fish to fry. Foreign Aid at £13bn a year for example. H2S, which has cost £2bn and hasn't even been fking started yet.
You're confusing benefit fraud with people simply being entitled to too many benefits - when people are complaining about a cap on benefits which is not so much higher than average household income, then things are clearly wrong. The fact that 2/3rds of all household collect some form of benefit just shows how ridiculous things are.k all in the wider scheme of things. It's estimated that benefit fraud costs about £2bn a year. Which is about 6 days running costs for the NHS.There are bigger fish to fry. Foreign Aid at £13bn a year for example. H2S, which has cost £2bn and hasn't even been f
king started yet. Joey Ramone said:
And much as I loathe the feckless wkers who sponge off the hard work of other people, I bet that most of us have succeeded in some form or another in cheating the Govt of money which we should have paid.
Everyone's at it in one way or another, just to different extents.
Speak for yourself!kers who sponge off the hard work of other people, I bet that most of us have succeeded in some form or another in cheating the Govt of money which we should have paid.Everyone's at it in one way or another, just to different extents.
AJL308 said:
technodup said:
VolvoT5 said:
Reduce taxes but improve healthcare (which requires more spending regardless of ideology behind the system). How does that work?
Probably by accepting the NHS cannot do everything, and can't continue to keep up with the ever increasing number and cost of drugs/treatments. Do less, and encourage private health insurance.VolvoT5 said:
Increase the number of grammar schools (hotly debated as to whether this 'encourages excellence' anyway) while cutting the number of Uni places available for those that then graduate from these schools. Universities are one of the things we generally do quite well at as a country and our workforce is trying to compete with other countries that have an increasingly well educated population. Doesn't seem desirable or logical to me.
We have FAR too many people at university, who end up with loads of debt, no jobs and a chip on their shoulder. Only the best should be there, the rest should be learning trades, getting jobs or starting businesses.VolvoT5 said:
Encourage business investment - yes I'm sure a hard Brexit will do just that. Immigration and low wages are a big issue but economic growth and demographic issues kind of mean no party is ever going to deliver on that.
We'll just give up on it then?VolvoT5 said:
Encourage the feckless to work - I mean define "feckless" which is a pretty horrible term really. Is all 1.6 million unemployed who are enjoying their life of luxury on £70 JSA a week? The one million food bank users last year
There are a lot of people who choose to live the benefits life. Many of them topping up via other means. I know a guy who gets a job around this time to pay for his children's Xmas. The rest of the year? Not interested. Whether they're feckless or simply unemployed we should do more to get/force them into work before we let increasing numbers of immigrants in to do the jobs they could and should be doing.And as for food banks, if it's offered people will take it. If we really wanted to help we'd give these people lessons on household budgeting, cooking etc. Teach a man to fish etc.
ks. Quality, healthy food is not expensive at all. You just need to cook it but that's too much hard work for some people. You can eat decent food very cheaply if you put 5 minutes thought into it. Twilkes said:
98elise said:
My father in law lives in the same area as us and has all the normal things any working family can expect to have. He has enough to buy a new car every 5 or 6 years. He had to help his son out a few times financially, and a few years ago gave my kids a grand each towards Uni.
When I was made redundant I applied for about 300 jobs in 3 months before I got a new job. My father in law hasn't applied for 1 job in 3 decades. There is something very wrong with that scenario.
What benefits is he getting, presume some kind of disability if he hasn't had to apply for work? If he has a partner, what does she do?When I was made redundant I applied for about 300 jobs in 3 months before I got a new job. My father in law hasn't applied for 1 job in 3 decades. There is something very wrong with that scenario.
He is married and my mother in law is also disabled. She has a hip condition which means she's always walked with sticks (and later with a frame)
98elise said:
Yes he has chronic back pain, which is exactly what I have been diagnosed with. For me it means I can't do a manual job, however I work in IT so its completely managable. For him it means a life sat watching sky or walking his dog.
He is married and my mother in law is also disabled. She has a hip condition which means she's always walked with sticks (and later with a frame)
Has he tried a bit of self help by seeing a chiropractor? He is married and my mother in law is also disabled. She has a hip condition which means she's always walked with sticks (and later with a frame)
motco said:
Halb said:
Smollet said:
How many LibDems lurk there?
Conservative Party 255 Labour Party 209
Crossbencher 177
Liberal Democrats 105
Lords Spiritual 26
Democratic Unionist Party 3
Non-affiliated 22
UK Independence Party 3
Plaid Cymru 2
Ulster Unionist Party 2
Independent Labour 2
Green Party 1
Independent Liberal Democrat 1
Independent Ulster Unionist 1
The crossbenchers are also wildcards, and it's not a case that Tory lords automatically support the government, especially on contentious issues like grammar schools.
FN2TypeR said:
There is a lot less tribal loyalty in the HoL than there is in Parliament - that's the whole point of it, tis' a broad church.
Indeed, and that is even outside of the fact that the LDs are not Labour, and putting the huge number of crossbenchers to one side s well.The House of Lords...funny things happen there.
Halb said:
FN2TypeR said:
There is a lot less tribal loyalty in the HoL than there is in Parliament - that's the whole point of it, tis' a broad church.
Indeed, and that is even outside of the fact that the LDs are not Labour, and putting the huge number of crossbenchers to one side s well.The House of Lords...funny things happen there.
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